New Clutch kit needed

Ian H

Member
Messages
153
Hi
Does anyone know where to source a new clutch kit - Pressure Plate, Clutch Disc, Thrust Bearing
Eurospares have an after market kit advertised for £566 incl. VAT but don't expect stock for another month.
Many thanks
Ian
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
33,667
Mike Roberts did a conversion on the 3200 from pull to push with great success. I think he used BMW parts for this conversion. No more end float issues???
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
10,195
Mike Roberts did a conversion on the 3200 from pull to push with great success. I think he used BMW parts for this conversion. No more end float issues???
That doesn’t make sense, a push clutch imposes roughly twice the longitudinal force on a crankshaft when the clutch pedal is depressed compared with a pull clutch with a similar clamping force.
 

Ian H

Member
Messages
153
Sorry for 3200
Have just sorted end float- for a couple of years anyway with new set of thrust washers
will post separately on progress of that adventure!
 

MRichards

Member
Messages
274
AFAIK the original ZF clutch kit is still available from clutchpro.com.au,Part No. KMS24001. Back in 2017 the cost was A$1200. On this forum there is a detailed post on strengthening the throwout bearing to prevent it breaking. The clutch which I replaced appears to be still in good condition & I reckon you could replace the friction material with a better wearing composition,rather than replace with the original item.
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,079
My 3200 had the full kit replaced when the thrust bearing tore away. Made from old biscuit tin lid it seemed. Rest of the kit seemed okay but "while you were in there".
as others commented , would consider replacing the dumb bearing and fixing the friction plate.
Good luck with the manifolds! Waiting for spring to start on my own 3200 resurrection. Just fuel pumps and Throttle body on the know faults list ( persistent )
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
33,667
That doesn’t make sense, a push clutch imposes roughly twice the longitudinal force on a crankshaft when the clutch pedal is depressed compared with a pull clutch with a similar clamping force.
If so please explain the thrust washer failure on 3200 from the pull direction? You also have the issue of the thrust bearing ears getting pulled off, it’s a terrible design.
 

Enz0

Junior Member
Messages
94
If so please explain the thrust washer failure on 3200 from the pull direction?
The crankshaft will always be pulled, even if the clutch is push-type. The relation between the force on the crankshaft (Fcs), clamping force (Fcl), and the force from the slave cylinder (Fsc) will be as follows. (It's simplified, of course)

Pull-type clutch: Fcs = Fcl - Fsc
Push-type clutch: Fcs = Fcl + Fsc

The pull-type clutch is easier to get a bigger ratio of Fcl/Fsc, so it is also better for our left foot, not only for the crankshaft.


Edited:
This was totally wrong. The pull-type clutch pulls the crankshaft with force on the thrust bearing, and the push-type pushes.

You also have the issue of the thrust bearing ears getting pulled off, it’s a terrible design.
The plastic thrust bearing is indeed a terrible design.

Mike Roberts did a conversion on the 3200 from pull to push with great success. I think he used BMW parts for this conversion. No more end float issues???
The clutch Mike Roberts (The Maserati Shed) sells now is not push-type. It's a pull-type with significantly less clamping force than OEM one. If the friction material is grippier, less clamping force is needed to transfer the same torque.
 
Last edited:

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
33,667
Well, I suppose I did ask :p

Thinking about it, the push clutch was not MR it was another forum member who did it, his name evades me. It was clever stiff.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
10,195
If so please explain the thrust washer failure on 3200 from the pull direction? You also have the issue of the thrust bearing ears getting pulled off, it’s a terrible design.

It’s the poor design of the crank thrusts that are the issue not the clutch pull. If you install a push clutch it’ll be the other thrusts that fail. The release bearing is again a bad design. Most commercial vehicles use a pull clutch without the same issue.

The crankshaft will always be pulled, even if the clutch is push-type. The relation between the force on the crankshaft (Fcs), clamping force (Fcl), and the force from the slave cylinder (Fsc) will be as follows. (It's simplified, of course)

Pull-type clutch: Fcs = Fcl - Fsc
Push-type clutch: Fcs = Fcl + Fsc

The pull-type clutch is easier to get a bigger ratio of Fcl/Fsc, so it is also better for our left foot, not only for the crankshaft.


The plastic thrust bearing is indeed a terrible design.


The clutch Mike Roberts (The Maserati Shed) sells now is not push-type. It's a pull-type with significantly less clamping force than OEM one. If the friction material is grippier, less clamping force is needed to transfer the same torque.

Clamping force of the clutch spring does not impart any longitudinal force on the crankshaft. The only thing that does that is the clutch release bearing. The reason for the reduced force needed to depress the clutch on a pull clutch is that the diaphragm spring pivots part way along its radius so there is a lever effect.
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,079
If so please explain the thrust washer failure on 3200 from the pull direction? You also have the issue of the thrust bearing ears getting pulled off, it’s a terrible design.

Never heard of that ? < pardon>
Might have the failed thrust bearing in my black museum. Item is comically simple pressed metal sheet forming the collar / holder. The bearing itself is 'only just' retained by circlip. Would be disappointed to find this item in fiat panda.
The ears were torn back in the same manner you might have seen when opening can of beans with one of these

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