Ghibli II 2.8 ABS replacing ECU

Dutch_Cerbera

New Member
Messages
42
If the ghibli runs in safe mode, you will have a low boost, but quite a nice amount of pressure (0,7 bar if I remember well). So the car should not have any problem to ride on a hill and you should be able able to drive it almost without difficulties (with 0,7bar, you should have at least 200-220 hp I presume).

I'm not sure there are 2 different secure modes; in fact, I don't think so, only one secure mode (with low boost allowed) but no limp mode.
If the CEL light is ON even without firing the engine, the ecu doesn't receive the signal from one of the sensor (short circuit or defect in the wiring, or missing sensor -do you still have lambda sensor?).
More about the cause of the CEL here, I hope it will help you. http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri06uuuuuu.htm

Did you try to disconnect the battery (24-48h) to re-initialise the ECU? But reading your description, I think the problem is elsewhere...

170 euro is an awful lot for 6km, I paid about 125 from my home to Valenti (50km, I live not far from "Le Roeulx"). For 170 euro, you can replace almost all the sensors of your ghibli.
We'll have the opportunity to meet, don't worry, Belgium is a small country.

SD1 doesn't seem very complicated; would you mind to share the diagram?
Well, at Valenti they have changed both the lambda sensors, so I guess they will be fine.
If Valenti is correct and there is a problem with my (left side) knock sensor signal, and it has to be changed I am not sure if I could do that myself (or trust myself doing this properly), as they are located kinda difficult, if I am not mistaken.
But I do have a knock sensor at home. But when I read your link (Enrico's page), I read it as if the CEL light would not light up before firing up the engine... Ok... Ok... AG25640 needed :))))

Interesting to read that I should be able to drive up the hill... Currently I can drive up the Hill when I have some speed, but not from standing still. So ok, guess I will have to take a close look at the tubes to and from the turbos.

I think I did disconnect the battery long enough, but sure good idea, will do that again... won't harm and you never know she might fix herself ;-)

And sure happy to share the AG25640 diagram (see below), I found them somewhere on the internet. Hope you and others will find it useful.

_AG25640.documentationpage1.jpg_AG25640.documentationpage1a.jpg_Ghibli Diagnostic Tester.jpg
 

spacecadet

Member
Messages
353
If you want to build this tool these are the connectors needed to plug straight into the ones in the footwell:

http://www.tme.eu/en/details/nlsg-1x4/raster-signal-connectors-635mm/ninigi/nslg-1x4/
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/nlsg-t/raster-signal-connectors-635mm/ninigi/nslg-t/

I had occasional CEL, but since I built the tester and put it into the car it never came up again :)

It's testing ability is really limited but if you have constant CEL at least it can point you to the source of the problem / sensor.
 

Dutch_Cerbera

New Member
Messages
42
If you want to build this tool these are the connectors needed to plug straight into the ones in the footwell:

http://www.tme.eu/en/details/nlsg-1x4/raster-signal-connectors-635mm/ninigi/nslg-1x4/
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/nlsg-t/raster-signal-connectors-635mm/ninigi/nslg-t/

I had occasional CEL, but since I built the tester and put it into the car it never came up again :)

It's testing ability is really limited but if you have constant CEL at least it can point you to the source of the problem / sensor.
So you actually did build the tester from these diagrams? And did you ever connect the machine?
I am very curious to know if it really works and if you can reset the ECU as described in the manual.
Perhaps I should really built it myself, as you are saying it could point me to the source.

So that is why I very curious if it really is that simple and if it really does work as in the manual described.
 

spacecadet

Member
Messages
353
Yes I "built" it -- it's just wires with a connector and two switches. When the ECU senses pin 8 is grounded (be careful, switches are NC - normally closed) it blinks out the active error codes on the CEL lamp. You need the one without the LEDs, as I know that one was used for older cars. Btw the ECU is really basic, meaning slow (they needed two, one per bank) and no memory. That's why I couldn't test mine, because the CEL light has to be on to be able to read out the error code, when the ignition is turned off, it forgets everything.

Different versions of this ECU were used in Ford Cosworth, Lancia Delta Integrale and Ferrari F40, a tried at tested solution for turbocharged performance cars at that time.

Initiating the self-adaptation routine / reset is still a big mystery, every report I read so far couldn't make it's existence certain. I might try it myself now, since I've replaced the lambda sensors, and other sensors too, cleaned the injectors and throttle body and the car feels weaker then it was.
 

spacecadet

Member
Messages
353
You can read more about the IAW engine management system on http://www.bigturbo.co.uk/
The Ghibli uses IAW04/3C which is not present there, but the basics are the same and the Level 8 seems to be the closest, with really similar fault codes.
 

spacecadet

Member
Messages
353
I was able to activate the self-adaptation strategy! Or at least initiated some process with pushing the buttons as described in the manual: hold both buttons down, turn key to ignition, wait ~5 seconds (after the first 2-3 seconds the ordinary CEL will go off), release button 13-14, wait a few more seconds and CEL will come back, also some relay will switch rapidly which then turns to a slower constant rate.

I then started the engine and waited around 5 minutes. By the manual it should be kept idling until the fans come up, but as the weather was crazy the whole weekend I was not planning to idle it for another 10-15 minutes without being able to do a proper test drive after.
 

Ghibli30

New Member
Messages
3
Hello,
It's difficult to say why a CEL comes on without investigating, the tool with switches can help as it can give the code of the faulty device, and helps saving time and money.
Please note that the CEL always goes off after starting the engine, and comes back 30 seconds after if a defect is recorded.
I can add that the ECU is very reliable, most of the time the error comes from a lambda.
 

Dutch_Cerbera

New Member
Messages
42
Well, I did not find time/motivation to look at the issue so far.

But I decided to simply buy the AG 25640 diagnostic tool, so one of these days I will connect it and let's see what it will tell me.

So for those ones of you around Brussels, I have the diagnostic to at home and in case you need to do a check... let me know.

Cheers
 

Dutch_Cerbera

New Member
Messages
42
So today I managed to find time and motivation to connect my diagnostic tool to my Ghibli. And I got 1+2 blinks, so Cam Sensor issue on the right cable. Yeah... but what means the right cable... I hope it means the right side but when the cable is turned around... it is left... :D :D
So... guess just simply look at both Cam Sensors


I guess that measuring the Ohm (which should be between 600 and 700 Ohm) doesn't make sense as the engine warning lamp lights up during start.

So is this an easy job to do myself?
FYI I am not a mechanic, so I don't even know what tools I would need... As I read that the air gap has to be between 0.7 mm and 1.1 mm (or at least that is what is in the Biturbo workshop manual) I guess that there might be some special tools involved or it is kind of easy to do myself?

Oh yes, and sure it took me long to even find what/where they are located. But I guess it must be the Engine RPM sensors, hope I am not saying anything stupid now... But I looked at the Maserati QPIV Fuel System manual page 5 and I think they are number 23s/d.

Sure you can laugh, I don't mind... I even had to laugh myself, but I did not find Cam Sensor in the manual... only at the Diagnostics part.
So I guess it must be the 23 s/d... correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers