Engine swap

[A.S. Motorsport]

Just to clarify i'm using standalone ECU so everything was programmed from scratch

on a standalone it indeed doesn't matter at all, although the "F1" timing makes the engine a lot more aggressive (different overlap)

 

[giorgio01]

on a standalone it indeed doesn't matter at all, although the "F1" timing makes the engine a lot more aggressive (different overlap)

I also have manual gearbox and with the result on the dyno 480hp from 2009 auto engine. Do you think "F1" would make a difference?

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

yes the basic platform of the "YK" style engines with the proper GranTurismo/SportGT airbox will run 460-470hp
The main restriction in them is the exhaust manifolds, (hence we've made longtube ones that we'll soon start producing)

Interesting to note, usually a 4.7 in a QP uses a 4.2 airbox and mass air flow sensor, SportGT uses the one from a GranTurismo S.
The oiling system from YK onward (MC Stradale) has reed valves and DLC coatings the improve losses

 

[giorgio01]

I also have manual gearbox and with the result on the dyno 480hp from 2009 auto engine. Do you think "F1" would make a difference?

And manual throttle body, not fly by wire

 

[Tallman]

yes the basic platform of the "YK" style engines with the proper GranTurismo/SportGT airbox will run 460-470hp
The main restriction in them is the exhaust manifolds, (hence we've made longtube ones that we'll soon start producing)

Interesting to note, usually a 4.7 in a QP uses a 4.2 airbox and mass air flow sensor, SportGT uses the one from a GranTurismo S.
The oiling system from YK onward (MC Stradale) has reed valves and DLC coatings the improve losses

Do you know where you can see what variant the engine is? I have a 2012 Sport GTS (registered mid Oct 2012 but in South Africa so not sure what production date) so it should be either YM or (hopefully) YT - both with reed valves but the latter has an extra 10BHP - not sure where they got it from though.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Do you know where you can see what variant the engine is? I have a 2012 Sport GTS (registered mid Oct 2012 but in South Africa so not sure what production date) so it should be either YM or (hopefully) YT - both with reed valves but the latter has an extra 10BHP - not sure where they got it from though.

The reed valves aren't the power increase, I know Maserati made big point about them as it's a cool way of simulating the pump efficiency of dry-sump (but they didn't have the budget to revert Stradale back to dry-sump)

Where the increase came from is the cam-timing was modified and the airbox improved airflow (which a GranTurismo sport also has) they just tuned the engine further (electronically)
Now officially 2010 got the modified cam variators (INA spring type) but they weren't always installed in sequence so you can have a first batch full facellift QP 4.7 with the old variators (trust me i've had full facelift apart with old variators)
The improved variator added 10 degrees more adjustment range to the engine versus the old ones, hence the incompatibility electronically of the ECU's, late engines can move there cams much further.

YK also got DLC coated rods and i recall different piston skirt coating.

FYI F139YK in it's first 2011 irritation had 450 HP and 510 NM
With the big facilitate they bumped it to 460, and the last cars had 470, those engines aren't different.

All F136 above 440hp have the big airbox and integrated MAF sensor (i'm talking Maserati F136, Ferrari is a different topic)

So basically the VE rating of the design is capped at roughly 100hp/L, to go above this in my opinion the exhaust manifolds are the issue, and i believe the torque curve is limited due to the runner lengths and dents they have from factory.

It is worth noteing that California uses a F136YK as basis although roughly roughly speaking using 458 DI head and quad variators (cross-plane crankshaft like the maserati's!)

 

[Tallman]

The reed valves aren't the power increase, I know Maserati made big point about them as it's a cool way of simulating the pump efficiency of dry-sump (but they didn't have the budget to revert Stradale back to dry-sump)

Where the increase came from is the cam-timing was modified and the airbox improved airflow (which a GranTurismo sport also has) they just tuned the engine further (electronically)
Now officially 2010 got the modified cam variators (INA spring type) but they weren't always installed in sequence so you can have a first batch full facellift QP 4.7 with the old variators (trust me i've had full facelift apart with old variators)
The improved variator added 10 degrees more adjustment range to the engine versus the old ones, hence the incompatibility electronically of the ECU's, late engines can move there cams much further.

YK also got DLC coated rods and i recall different piston skirt coating.

FYI F139YK in it's first 2011 irritation had 450 HP and 510 NM
With the big facilitate they bumped it to 460, and the last cars had 470, those engines aren't different.

All F136 above 440hp have the big airbox and integrated MAF sensor (i'm talking Maserati F136, Ferrari is a different topic)

So basically the VE rating of the design is capped at roughly 100hp/L, to go above this in my opinion the exhaust manifolds are the issue, and i believe the torque curve is limited due to the runner lengths and dents they have from factory.

It is worth noteing that California uses a F136YK as basis although roughly roughly speaking using 458 DI head and quad variators (cross-plane crankshaft like the maserati's!)

Thanks - do you know if there is an indication on the engine somewhere as to what variant it is? Or is Maserati the only source of info on this?

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Thanks - do you know if there is an indication on the engine somewhere as to what variant it is? Or is Maserati the only source of info on this?

Stamped on your engine block, underneath near the bell-housing you'll have the engine number and variant code

 

[Tallman]

Stamped on your engine block, underneath near the bell-housing you'll have the engine number and variant code

Will your long tube manifolds fit a QPV Sport GTS without further modification? It looks like it needs some more space.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Will your long tube manifolds fit a QPV Sport GTS without further modification? It looks like it needs some more space.

They're designed for all Quattroporte and GranTurismo variants

 

[rs48635]

Is the QP 4.2 and later GranTurismo 4.7 manifold compatible?
Guess this means the bore centres are the same.
Is the 4.7 bigger bore or longer stroke? Thinking ahead to parts compatibility.

 

[Wack61]

Fortune favours the brave but well outside my comfort zone, off to try and wire a three pin plug

Me too , my head says if you want a faster car buy one , too much at risk buying an engine from the other side of the Atlantic , by the time you've added duty, vat and shipping it'll be at least ⅓ more expensive and imagine the hassle if it's a duffer

way more bother than it's worth IMO

 

[boywholovedbooks]

Me too , my head says if you want a faster car buy one , too much at risk buying an engine from the other side of the Atlantic , by the time you've added duty, vat and shipping it'll be at least ⅓ more expensive and imagine the hassle if it's a duffer

way more bother than it's worth IMO

Couldn't agree with you more!

Except, I was prepared to do all that, but Ed from A.S. Motorsports brought me down to Earth today, by saying that we might encounter so many electrical gremlins, that it would jeopardise the whole project.
To say them am devastated is to say nothing!!!!

 

[Tallman]

Well on a positive note you can always sell it again (or even return it still?). I’m sure it’s worth a bit for parts anyway being recent. You could learn a lot by parting it out

 

[Wack61]

Couldn't agree with you more!

Except, I was prepared to do all that, but Ed from A.S. Motorsports brought me down to Earth today, by saying that we might encounter so many electrical gremlins, that it would jeopardise the whole project.
To say them am devastated is to say nothing!!!!

I think you've had a lucky escape , you'd have turned a saleable insurable car into either a paperweight or something nobody would ever want to buy because with modified cars who knows how to fix them

As I recall the only 4.2 to 4.7 ever seen running and driving was advertised for months

 

[Wack61]

Couldn't agree with you more!

Except, I was prepared to do all that, but Ed from A.S. Motorsports brought me down to Earth today,
To say them am devastated is to say nothing!!!!

Found the thread from 2016

Maybe ask who Jason is and give him a call

https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/now-thats-a-nice-qp-interior.19738/

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Is the QP 4.2 and later GranTurismo 4.7 manifold compatible?
Guess this means the bore centres are the same.
Is the 4.7 bigger bore or longer stroke? Thinking ahead to parts compatibility.

All F136 have the same design layout, the exhaust on the QPV and GT is actually the same and that's also where a part of the restriction is.
So what flows OK in a 4.2, the 4.7 is pushing a lot more air and gasses trough the same ports and tubing

 

[rs48635]

All F136 have the same design layout, the exhaust on the QPV and GT is actually the same and that's also where a part of the restriction is.
So what flows OK in a 4.2, the 4.7 is pushing a lot more air and gasses trough the same ports and tubing

Half way through engine swap with BMW M62 V8 and interesting to see double walled stainless steel manifolds used on this mass-produced engine.
Think the M139 QP 4.2 I have might be inferior material. One of mine has a crack which causes ticking until hot. Pondering my options and might consider pair of yours.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Cracked manifolds is not that common on F136 Maserati, but it's standard on all and any Ferrari (same sub supplier)

 

[boywholovedbooks]

Found the thread from 2016

Maybe ask who Jason is and give him a call

https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/now-thats-a-nice-qp-interior.19738/

Will do. I think I might just need to find a quattroporte 4.7 engine instead of Granturizmo/Grancabrio to ensure connections and electricals are the same.