JAGPURR
New Member
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Hi,
Having gone boggle eyed trying to follow the Italian diagrams I have come up with this guide for how the electric windows operate. Although I’m not Italian I’m pretty sure I’ve near enough sussed it out. It should apply equally to the 3200 and the 4200.
Any reference to wiring colours are from the first connector leading to the switch as the actual wires connected to the switch are usually all black and soldered. When a colour is referred to as e.g. red/black this means that the main colour of the wire is red and it has a black line or tracer along it.
The door locks / handles have at an unbelievable 8 switches attached per door. Three of these concern the windows. The other five are concerned with door locking/unlocking and the alarm.
Switch “A” is mounted within the lock/latch mechanism, this operates to tell the system when the door is closed (switch closed) or open (switch open) ( wiring colours at first connector are white/green and red/black )
Switch “B” mounted on the inside of the door next to the handle to sense the door being opened from the inside, ( normally open, closed when handle moved) you can hear this operate when gently pulling the inside handle. ( wire colours at first connector are yellow and red/black )
Switch “C” mounted within the handle mechanism, as above this is to sense the handle being lifted from the outside. You can hear this click if you gently lift the handle without opening the lock. ( wire colours at first connector are red/black and brown/white {red/black and brown on other door} )
Another micro switch is mounted on the window lift mechanism to sense the position of the glass. (normally open , closed when glass is in droped position). ( wiring colours at first connector are yellow/blue and red/black { or green/black and red/black on other door} ) We will call this switch “D”
If the door is locked then a signal from the locking control module informs the window control module to ignore the signal from switch “B” or “C” so the windows don’t move every time some hoodie tries your door handle. ( Both these modules are enclosed in the same casing and it is situated under the passenger foot well panel. The door locks also have an additional relay unit mounted in the same place) This switch is independent for each side so you can have your door unlocked and the passenger door locked and only the handles on the unlocked door will operate the window. Therefore if only one side window is completely dead this switch is a good place to start.
If the door is unlocked but closed then a signal from switch “A” tells the control box to accept a signal from either switch “B” or “C” that tells it the door is about to open. This is important, only if the window is fully closed will the window drop 10-20mm until the switch “D” operates i.e., if you open the window even slightly, then no further signals are accepted from the handle switches “B” and “C” until the window is again fully closed.
If the handle is lifted enough to operate the window but not open the door after approx 10 seconds the window should close again.
If the window only drops from the inside then it’s probable that the outside switch is u/s or sticking and of course visa versa. Just a point if you are checking these switches with a meter, they are wired in parallel or piggyback, ( the control box doesn’t need to know which one was operated as the response is the same from either) so the only way to test is disconnect one from the other, the inside one being easier to get at.
If the window drops fully then this is a good sign that switch “D” is goosed or requires aligning. There is virtually no adjustment on the operating cam and the switch is riveted, so the only option is to bend the switch leaver slightly. Be very careful if doing this as it is easy to overdo it and the next time the window drops and raises the switch arm will catch on the ramp and break off ( not recommended as replacing is a bit of a chore and cost you £50.) Davidhowson has posted some close up pics of switch "D"&"B" in the 3200/4200 section.
When the door is closed the window should return to its stop position and seal against the rubber.
The stopping of the window at either the up or down limits is controlled by the current sensing circuit within the control box; this also prevents the windows from closing when hitting an obstacle like a child’s head. You can test this by trying to close the window whilst resting your arm against it, if you resist the raising it will stop on its own. This will obviously occur if the window is misaligned and jamming. There is also a 15 second operation limit to prevent overheating of the motors. In addition if the window is raised while the door is open it will automatically drop 10-20mm so it is in the correct position for ready for the door closing.
In typical Italian fashion there are a few different fuses to check when a fault shows itself.
Fuse 15 (25A) this feeds the window motors via relays within the control module.
Fuse 16 (15A) this feeds the control circuits and module.
Other fuses will stop the windows opperating but will also effect lots of other things ie. those associated with the CanModule.
It seems that the majority of faults are associated with either the positioning micro switch out of alignment due to wear ( see above). Outside door handle switches due to dirt, Lazy motors due to age , although quite often this turns out to be a symptom of binding or broken winding mechanisms.
Most of the micro switches are available to buy although quite expensive for what they are, approx £60 each. The control module is £200 so if suspected as faulty it would be worth opening and checking all the solder connections as this is where the majority of faults can be found with these units. A complete winder mechanism will also cost you £200 although I understand a cheaper one can be sourced via Alfa Romeo. And if you are really determined you could unrivet and swap the motor from most Alfa /Fiat winders located at your local brakers yard.
Keith
Having gone boggle eyed trying to follow the Italian diagrams I have come up with this guide for how the electric windows operate. Although I’m not Italian I’m pretty sure I’ve near enough sussed it out. It should apply equally to the 3200 and the 4200.
Any reference to wiring colours are from the first connector leading to the switch as the actual wires connected to the switch are usually all black and soldered. When a colour is referred to as e.g. red/black this means that the main colour of the wire is red and it has a black line or tracer along it.
The door locks / handles have at an unbelievable 8 switches attached per door. Three of these concern the windows. The other five are concerned with door locking/unlocking and the alarm.
Switch “A” is mounted within the lock/latch mechanism, this operates to tell the system when the door is closed (switch closed) or open (switch open) ( wiring colours at first connector are white/green and red/black )
Switch “B” mounted on the inside of the door next to the handle to sense the door being opened from the inside, ( normally open, closed when handle moved) you can hear this operate when gently pulling the inside handle. ( wire colours at first connector are yellow and red/black )
Switch “C” mounted within the handle mechanism, as above this is to sense the handle being lifted from the outside. You can hear this click if you gently lift the handle without opening the lock. ( wire colours at first connector are red/black and brown/white {red/black and brown on other door} )
Another micro switch is mounted on the window lift mechanism to sense the position of the glass. (normally open , closed when glass is in droped position). ( wiring colours at first connector are yellow/blue and red/black { or green/black and red/black on other door} ) We will call this switch “D”
If the door is locked then a signal from the locking control module informs the window control module to ignore the signal from switch “B” or “C” so the windows don’t move every time some hoodie tries your door handle. ( Both these modules are enclosed in the same casing and it is situated under the passenger foot well panel. The door locks also have an additional relay unit mounted in the same place) This switch is independent for each side so you can have your door unlocked and the passenger door locked and only the handles on the unlocked door will operate the window. Therefore if only one side window is completely dead this switch is a good place to start.
If the door is unlocked but closed then a signal from switch “A” tells the control box to accept a signal from either switch “B” or “C” that tells it the door is about to open. This is important, only if the window is fully closed will the window drop 10-20mm until the switch “D” operates i.e., if you open the window even slightly, then no further signals are accepted from the handle switches “B” and “C” until the window is again fully closed.
If the handle is lifted enough to operate the window but not open the door after approx 10 seconds the window should close again.
If the window only drops from the inside then it’s probable that the outside switch is u/s or sticking and of course visa versa. Just a point if you are checking these switches with a meter, they are wired in parallel or piggyback, ( the control box doesn’t need to know which one was operated as the response is the same from either) so the only way to test is disconnect one from the other, the inside one being easier to get at.
If the window drops fully then this is a good sign that switch “D” is goosed or requires aligning. There is virtually no adjustment on the operating cam and the switch is riveted, so the only option is to bend the switch leaver slightly. Be very careful if doing this as it is easy to overdo it and the next time the window drops and raises the switch arm will catch on the ramp and break off ( not recommended as replacing is a bit of a chore and cost you £50.) Davidhowson has posted some close up pics of switch "D"&"B" in the 3200/4200 section.
When the door is closed the window should return to its stop position and seal against the rubber.
The stopping of the window at either the up or down limits is controlled by the current sensing circuit within the control box; this also prevents the windows from closing when hitting an obstacle like a child’s head. You can test this by trying to close the window whilst resting your arm against it, if you resist the raising it will stop on its own. This will obviously occur if the window is misaligned and jamming. There is also a 15 second operation limit to prevent overheating of the motors. In addition if the window is raised while the door is open it will automatically drop 10-20mm so it is in the correct position for ready for the door closing.
In typical Italian fashion there are a few different fuses to check when a fault shows itself.
Fuse 15 (25A) this feeds the window motors via relays within the control module.
Fuse 16 (15A) this feeds the control circuits and module.
Other fuses will stop the windows opperating but will also effect lots of other things ie. those associated with the CanModule.
It seems that the majority of faults are associated with either the positioning micro switch out of alignment due to wear ( see above). Outside door handle switches due to dirt, Lazy motors due to age , although quite often this turns out to be a symptom of binding or broken winding mechanisms.
Most of the micro switches are available to buy although quite expensive for what they are, approx £60 each. The control module is £200 so if suspected as faulty it would be worth opening and checking all the solder connections as this is where the majority of faults can be found with these units. A complete winder mechanism will also cost you £200 although I understand a cheaper one can be sourced via Alfa Romeo. And if you are really determined you could unrivet and swap the motor from most Alfa /Fiat winders located at your local brakers yard.
Keith
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