Are you worried yet.

[D Walker]

So,
We have my adult daughter and son, a cat and a snake with us at the moment. The adult children have turned into kids again and I’m becoming Victorian dad again. They seem to have lost the ability to be adults now they are home and mum is here to wipe their arses.

 

[iainw]

30 years apparently: https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/are-you-worried-yet.30503/page-163#post-758674

Do you understand what that 30 years represented?

 

[iainw]

I do agree that the middle class do better out of the NHS (and there is some data to support this). mainly because if you have a rationing system that depends on a GP saying "Well, it doesn't look too bad, let's see how it goes over the next couple of months and then come back to me." Naturally those who are pushy or better educated, or have more time, will press for tests/treatment, while the others will wait.

I can see how means-tested payments might look like an answer, but it is potentially damaging to the ethos of the NHS and is expensive to administer. One small 'nudge' change I would like to see is that at the end of a GP visit you get a 'bill' for £150, and then you get told that thanks to taxpayers, you don't have to pay the costs. Just creating visibility of costs can go a long way.

I disagree. The lower social class / those on benefits do best out of the NHS. They pay no taxes and seem to have an expectation they are owed something. Whereas educated people will perhaps try and encourage appropriate investigation in the main, myself and colleagues have wide experience of certain groups of Society demanding to be seen without appropriate symptoms. The classic is demanding antibiotics when they clearly either have nothing wrong with them or a virus. Of course- as with everything this is an oversimplification, just based on personal experiences over 20 years in the NHS and combined wisdom.

 

[MarkMas]

Do you understand what that 30 years represented?

Nope, not at all. All you said was "but it take takes over 30 years to ‘produce’ the staff to wo(man) them".

I would guess that a senior consultant with 30 years of training and experience is likely to be an impressively knowledgeable person, but I have no idea how long it would take in a crisis to train, say, a random dentist to operate a ventilator well enough to have an average patient outcome that is better than just not bothering with a ventilator at all.
3 hours? 3 days? 3 weeks? 3 months? 3 years? 30 years? Not a clue.

 

[lozcb]

They should be fined for all the food waste looking at the current situation being 30% up.
In my opinion the fines in the UK for not obeying the lockdown.
£60 reduced to £30 if paid early what a joke compared to fines to motorists.
I got fined £600 back in 1993 for doing a 112 MPH on a very quite M5 motorway and a 2 week suspension of my license.

In France on the way back from LeMans one year , i ogt caught for speeding 138mph , cost me euros 300 and 30 minutes of my time with the bonnet up discussing combien de puissance

 

[Oneball]

Do you understand what that 30 years represented?

Based on my mate who got nicked for outraging public decency while studying at Kings College

27 years of learning interspersed with 2 years running naked down the Kings Road and 1 year photocopying notes cause you were recovering from the drinks that led you to taking your clothes off.

 

[lozcb]

Looks like India got things under control then

Migrant workers crowd up outside a bus station as they wait to board buses to return to their villages during a 21-day nationwide lockdown to limit the spreading of COVID-19, in Ghaziabad, India, on March 28.

 

[DaveT]

Keep off the single spine staircases in there, I installed those.....just sayin..

Haha

Been on those many times while exhibiting there. Will bear that in mind when I go back at some point (hopefully).

 

[rockits]

Is have to agree with Iain and disagree with Mark on this. I think the people who pay in the least use the resources the most in the main.

The main reason the NHS books don't balance is like the country it is not run like a business. If it were maybe things would be very different.

Although I have to be honest in modern business even some businesses are not run like what I would call running a business!

This modern propensity to operate at a loss, over budget, over deadline, under achieving without consequence is not realistic or feasible.

How many people have started a business and failed leaving a trail of fallout behind them. Don't trade through tough times, get bailed out or cease trading with massive debts then start up and do it a again.

I am far short of being a rocket scientist but if more comes out than goes in then it doesn't work. It is not difficult to grasp surely.

There are some massive fundamental flaws in attitudes that just do not compute.

 

[lozcb]

Sorry if its a bit hard hitting , but it brings home the reality

‘Anything good I could say about this would be a lie.’

She’s dead, and I’m quarantined. That’s how the story ends. I keep going back over it in loops, trying to find a way to sweeten it, but nothing changes the facts. I wasn’t there with her at the end. I didn’t get to say goodbye. I don’t even know where her body is right now, or if the only thing that’s left is her ashes.

From normal life to this **** in a week. That’s how long it took. How am I supposed to make any sense of that? It’s loops and more loops.

 

[Silvercat]

Just been speaking with one of my mates in New York , he lives in Queens

This is absolutely horrific! It will become cataclysmic if they cant get a grip of the situation.

 

[philw696]

Sad Times Indeed.

German state finance minister found dead – DW – 03/29/2020

Police suspect Thomas Schäfer died by suicide after his body was found on train tracks near Wiesbaden. He was the finance minister for the state of Hesse, where Germany's financial center Frankfurt lies.

m.dw.com

 

[iainw]

Nope, not at all. All you said was "but it take takes over 30 years to ‘produce’ the staff to wo(man) them".

I would guess that a senior consultant with 30 years of training and experience is likely to be an impressively knowledgeable person, but I have no idea how long it would take in a crisis to train, say, a random dentist to operate a ventilator well enough to have an average patient outcome that is better than just not bothering with a ventilator at all.
3 hours? 3 days? 3 weeks? 3 months? 3 years? 30 years? Not a clue.

Humans need to be born, grow up, get educated and then train. There is a limited resource of doctors. As I said previously -it’s hard to train even Anaesthtists effectively in a short time frame.

 

[iainw]

Nope, not at all. All you said was "but it take takes over 30 years to ‘produce’ the staff to wo(man) them".

I would guess that a senior consultant with 30 years of training and experience is likely to be an impressively knowledgeable person, but I have no idea how long it would take in a crisis to train, say, a random dentist to operate a ventilator well enough to have an average patient outcome that is better than just not bothering with a ventilator at all.
3 hours? 3 days? 3 weeks? 3 months? 3 years? 30 years? Not a clue.

You couldn’t train a random dentist to run a ventilator safely in an acceptable time frame.

 

[MarkMas]

You couldn’t train a random dentist to run a ventilator safely in an acceptable time frame.

Well, I know nothing about this, but still have some questions, if you don't mind....

So what do you mean by safely? Surely the criterion is, as I say, "Well enough to have an average patient outcome that is better than just not bothering with a ventilator at all." Also, is the level of expert supervision significant? (So would it, in a time of crisis, maybe be better to have 1 expert, 10 trainees and 20 ventilators than 1 expert and 5 ventilators?)

What do you mean by an acceptable time frame? If we anticipated still having an overload problem 3 months from now, or if we feared a 'second bubble' 9 months from now, should we be trying to do some training now?

 

[Delmonte]

In France on the way back from LeMans one year , i ogt caught for speeding 138mph , cost me euros 300 and 30 minutes of my time with the bonnet up discussing combien de puissance

;
Are we playing speeding fine top trumps?
I got done doing exactly 100 on the M1 in 1990, fined £235 Serious wedge at the time. I was 19, my weekly wage was £103, the car I was in only cost £800

 

[philw696]

Fines are going up here in France now for non compliance to the law.
Break it twice now and you seriously risk going to jail.
Stay Safe all.

 

[MarkMas]

I disagree. The lower social class / those on benefits do best out of the NHS. They pay no taxes and seem to have an expectation they are owed something. Whereas educated people will perhaps try and encourage appropriate investigation in the main, myself and colleagues have wide experience of certain groups of Society demanding to be seen without appropriate symptoms. The classic is demanding antibiotics when they clearly either have nothing wrong with them or a virus. Of course- as with everything this is an oversimplification, just based on personal experiences over 20 years in the NHS and combined wisdom.

Oh, ok, I totally agree that if you do the maths as "what you get out" minus "what you put in" then you certainly get a better deal if you don't pay much in taxes. (But bear in mind that even the poorest / idlest in our society pay quite a lot of taxes - VAT, fuel duty etc.)

But what I meant was purely in terms of what you get out of the NHS, irrespective of what you put in. True some people have bad attitudes, make unreasonable demands, are casual about appointment-keeping, but I don't have any data on the demographics of this. Perhaps each of us has personal experience and wisdom that makes us confident in asserting that certain groups are more like this. But there is plenty of real scientific data that suggests that the middle classes get better outcomes from the NHS than others, although it is less clear why. Perhaps being more 'pushy', perhaps following their treatment better, perhaps just geographical provision of services.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2920379/

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...rvational-cohort-study-of-13-770-patients.pdf

 

[rockits]

Fines are going up here in France now for non compliance to the law.
Break it twice now and you seriously risk going to jail.
Stay Safe all.

I think this seems the right action to take and a harder line as some just don't seem to be listening or taking notice. They seem either completely selfish or completely unaware of what potential harm they could be causing. Or both.

 

[MarkMas]

It's parody, a joke, a meme, a laugh just to get likes and reactions on social media. Take a day off mate!

I do love a parody, a joke, a meme or a laugh - honest. I have a history of 'liking' loads of these things. But I do have an irrepressible urge to step in when it is rooted in a political assertion that is wholly untrue. I will try to rein it in, or move over to the Rant Thread!

I have too many days off at the moment! That may be the problem.