Wanted: 2.8 Ghibli Engine

Tipo 336

New Member
Messages
11
Hi everyone, it's an unfortunate first post but i'm on the hunt for a Ghibli 2.8 engine in good condition (post '94 engine with coilpacks on plug, not the earlier distributor version).

I don't require any ancillaries such as turbos etc just a complete (assembled!) head and block.

I have contacted Eurospares and waiting on a price/availability, does anyone have a suggestion of where else i can look? I was told by a Maserati specialist there was someone in Finland that has a stock of engines!?

I'm located in Sydney, Australia, however i am willing to ship from virtually anywhere.
 

dickyb

Member
Messages
433
Might be worth contacting these guys, they are breaking a QP IV 2.8 Auto and might still have the engine although you would need to change a few parts over if your car is manual.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BREAKING-...9077643?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item418a0e758b

There are a number of differences between early versions of the engine and between auto and manual so depending on which version you have it might not be a straight swap and may require some dismantling. The engine from this car would be similar to that from a GT so the flywheel and crankshaft will be different to those of the earlier version.

I would also suggest David Askew but he is out of action at the moment.

These guys in France might be able to help:

http://www.antaresdesign.fr/recherc...ay=desc&antares_marque=204&antares_modele=351

They have an engine for sale here:

http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/718174953.htm?ca=11_s

This guy in Holland breaks a few Ghiblis & QPIVs so may worth contacting, he certainly has a block and may well have a complete engine:

http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/auto-on...da871b0d84f75c3056cc6db858f31&previousPage=lr

Or Modena Performance in Germany will certainly be able to help but it'll cost you:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Austauschmot...eile&fits=Model:Ghibli+II&hash=item1c27e56085

Hope that's of some use
 

Tipo 336

New Member
Messages
11
Thanks for the suggestions guys, and the links are great. I appears that most useable engines for sale appear to be around the 2800-3500 euro mark.

My Ghibli is an early January '95 build, so it has the coilpack ignition engine but with 5 spd gearbox and no ABS.

Does anyone know if mating a ZF 5 speed box to a Ghibli GT engine is relatively straight forward? I looked up the part numbers - the pressure plate and clutch assembly is the same for the 6spd Getrag and 5spd ZF, so on face value it should be a straight forward swap?

Anyway, some of you are probably wondering why i'm looking for a new engine, i recently bought a Ghibli, however it has been diagnosed with a damaged piston wrist pin (aka gudgeon pin) and at this stage it appears to be more financially viable to take a gamble on a second hand engine.
 

Andyk

Member
Messages
61,165
A big warm welcome to the forum Tipo...Hope you find what you are looking for...
 

dickyb

Member
Messages
433
Thanks for the suggestions guys, and the links are great. I appears that most useable engines for sale appear to be around the 2800-3500 euro mark.

My Ghibli is an early January '95 build, so it has the coilpack ignition engine but with 5 spd gearbox and no ABS.

Does anyone know if mating a ZF 5 speed box to a Ghibli GT engine is relatively straight forward? I looked up the part numbers - the pressure plate and clutch assembly is the same for the 6spd Getrag and 5spd ZF, so on face value it should be a straight forward swap?

Anyway, some of you are probably wondering why i'm looking for a new engine, i recently bought a Ghibli, however it has been diagnosed with a damaged piston wrist pin (aka gudgeon pin) and at this stage it appears to be more financially viable to take a gamble on a second hand engine.

Yes I would imagine you would be looking at a figure of at least 4000 euros to have a second hand replacement engine sent to you, then it would be an idea to change the timing chains, timing belt plus waterpump and clutch etc before installing into your car.

I can't really answer the question about the gearbox, I have seen a 6 speed fitted to an early 2.8 so I would imagine that it may be possible to fit the 5 speed to the later engine but don't quote me on that. There were some clutch revisions to late Ghibli GTs and the Quattroporte which used an uprated Voith friction plate but I imagine the mounting points for the gearbox onto the rear of the engine will be the same.

Who provided you with the diagnosis and has this been done with the engine removed? What are the symptoms? It might be worth making further investigations before writing your existing engine off, it will have to come out whether you are fixing it or replacing it, so while its on the bench it might be worth taking the heads off and having a look. You never know the damage may be minor and you may save yourself a huge bill, or if it does turn out to be terminal, at least you will know that a minor additional outlay has led to you making the right decision.
 

hodroyd

Member
Messages
14,150
Welcome to the forum Tipo, if anyone can help you, they will be found on here, good sound advice..!!
 

Tipo 336

New Member
Messages
11
Thanks for the warm welcome guys, i wish my first post here was something more enjoyable but i'll get the Ghibli back on the road soon enough. May the guy that sold me the car have bad automotive karma for the next 5 years, as i'm sure he was aware of the problem, but anyway, the car is in very nice condition otherwise... caveat emptor as they say...


Yes I would imagine you would be looking at a figure of at least 4000 euros to have a second hand replacement engine sent to you, then it would be an idea to change the timing chains, timing belt plus waterpump and clutch etc before installing into your car.

I can't really answer the question about the gearbox, I have seen a 6 speed fitted to an early 2.8 so I would imagine that it may be possible to fit the 5 speed to the later engine but don't quote me on that. There were some clutch revisions to late Ghibli GTs and the Quattroporte which used an uprated Voith friction plate but I imagine the mounting points for the gearbox onto the rear of the engine will be the same.

Who provided you with the diagnosis and has this been done with the engine removed? What are the symptoms? It might be worth making further investigations before writing your existing engine off, it will have to come out whether you are fixing it or replacing it, so while its on the bench it might be worth taking the heads off and having a look. You never know the damage may be minor and you may save yourself a huge bill, or if it does turn out to be terminal, at least you will know that a minor additional outlay has led to you making the right decision.

When i get the engine out i will most likely take the heads off and have a look but for now i tend to agree with the diagnosis without opening the engine.

When the oil is fully up to temperature (this is why i didn't hear it on the test drive), there is a metallic tapping / knocking noise most evident with light throttle above 2500RPM, which gets louder the higher the RPM (still light throttle), also the noise is sometimes there when you let off the throttle, but if you stick your foot into it, or are engine braking under load the noise is virtually gone, as the connecting rod is loading up the pin. It really is classic symptoms of a worn gudgeon pin... at first i hoped it was a stuck lifter, but the noise is deeper in the engine, and after a few test drives i think it's gettign worse, it almost sounds like a diesel at certain points!!! No more driving it for now, not worth the risk, i don't want metallic shrapnel through the turbos if a rod lets go.

Anyway, i could never sell a car with a problem like this to someone else so i'm stuck with fixing it, but luckily it is a very nice car otherwise, so it will be worth fixing it and i'm looking forward to driving it again!
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,632
So replacing the gudg pins is not a straight forward job then?

Pistons can sometimes be removed from underneath then you can also fully inspect the bores too.

What's the current mileage?

I am with you on the selling of cars with issues. I had a 3200 with endfloat diagnosed and everyone advised me to sell it. I am not morally like that so fixed it first then sold it to a guy who has had it for the last 5 years.
 

BennyD

Sea Urchin Pate
Messages
15,006
I don't know these engines but if it's possible, I would take the bottom cover off and remove the appropriate big end, con rod and piston. Check the bore to see if there is any unusual wear and, if not, reassemble with new, or used parts with new rings. It would be a lot cheaper, quicker and if it doesn't work, then change the engine.
 

Tipo 336

New Member
Messages
11
I did consider repair, although i'm a bit time poor and and i'm not sure if i'm willing to pull the engine apart myself. Labor here is quite expensive, and by the time you add parts, which could be a rod, a sleeve, rings, gudgeons, head gaskets and who knows what else (how long is a piece of string?), it is more economical for a replacement engine, which i will fit myself with new timing belt and water pump and most likely chains.

Unfortunately with the maser V6, it appears that pulling off the sump does not give easy access to the conrods compared to other engine designs, as the baffles are integrated into the casting directly below the crank.

I will update when progress is made, looks like i might have found an engine from a wrecked car with low miles... to be continued...
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,279
That description of noise I have had on a motorcycle before and that turned out to be a broken piston ring... Personally I would rebuild without a second thought, even if it involved a re-bore, ground crank or any other parts. A rebuild buys you the confidence it will be good for another 100,000 miles. They are therapeutic too!
 

Tipo 336

New Member
Messages
11
Well thanks for the encouragement, when i have more time i might look at a rebuilding the original engine.

The annoying thing is i bought this car simply to drive and enjoy! I just finished and sold a long term Alfa 105 GTV restoration project, i wasn't looking for another project!

Cheers
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,279
I always forget how much I enjoy rebuilding an engine till I actually do one! Keeps matching numbers too!
 

Tipo 336

New Member
Messages
11
Well after looking into this available engine in more detail it has came from a later '97 GT, so it has a Voith clutch and flywheel with 8 bolts, instead of the 6 bolts of earlier versions.... this could possibly be a problem as i was hoping to use the original clutch as it has less than 20,000kms on it, although i'm not sure if it is compatible with this flywheel... further investigation required.

In addition to this, it has provisions for an oil cooler, but that is seen as a bonus for this climate.

Is anyone aware of any other compatibility issues between a GT engine and earlier versions?

Doing a rebuild is starting to seem like an easier option now, unless a similar age engine comes up for sale.
 

Tipo 336

New Member
Messages
11
OK i can already answer my first question, i can use my existing 6 bolt flywheel and mate to the crank with provisions for 8 bolts, you just need to drill two extra holes in the flywheel. The bolt spacing is the same, just 2 less bolts.

Decision time... replace or rebuild... i just want to drive the car again!! :frusty5:
 

dickyb

Member
Messages
433
I guess you can only make your decision once your existing engine has been assessed properly. As several others have suggested, I think a rebuild makes a lot more sense assuming the damage to your existing engine is not too bad. A lot of the costs involved in these cars is the expensive labour charges, if you can do the work yourself you will make a huge saving, and at the end of the day despite being a Maserati, its still only nuts and bolts like any other car.

If you haven't done so already, checking the oil and sump for metal particles may be a worthwhile exercise and will give you an idea if anything has gone seriously wrong inside the engine such as a bearing failure.

Regarding the differences between the GT engine and the earlier type, there are a number of things but probably not many will give you problems. As you have seen, the crank and flywheel are different but sounds like you can get over that issue easily enough. There are some internal differences, valves etc but they won't be an issue. One thing that might require some thought is the braided fuel pipe at the rear of the engine bay, on Series 1a and MY95 (ABS) cars, this pipe is on the right side of the engine bay as you are looking at it from the front of the car (so passenger side on RHD), on a GT this pipe is on the left side as you face the engine (driver's side on RHD). You may therefore need to make some modifications to the fuel pipe routings.

MY 94 & 95

4856783868_25234fe04c_bi.jpg


GT

528860112SAM_0476i.jpg