Service History Issues

[thomasyan]

These already exist. See https://www.getpatina.com/ for example and there are others too.

Thanks dgmx5

Indeed similar platform exists, demonstrating there is a need for it somehow.
However I have been through these existing websites, they are very user-unfriendly!

The upload process is tedious and the UX is horrible to use.
Plus these websites are targeting mostly classic cars, I want to build something for all car owners like you and me.

What do you think?

 

[thomasyan]

This system I think would be prone to abuse. In the sense that Facebooktube is a good idea but look at the rubbish that is also on there.
It is a jolly good idea and I am sorry if I have put a dampener on things

Great point Dave, to avoid this, I have been thinking about all the data must be backed up by a photo.
Therefore it's much harder to falsify a photo and I don't think the cost benefit makes sense for the falsifying?

Plenty of platform are using photo as "source of truth", so I hope this mechanism would stopping most fake histories?
I cannot guarantee 100% authenticity but if we could get to 90% accuracy, it's a great starting point.

What do you think?

 

[thomasyan]

For me it's a solution looking for a problem. I have no issues keeping a box file for each vehicle (although the Ghibli's is pretty empty) and would also be extremely concerned about the issue of faked history. Above that, from a commercial sense I suspect you'd be wide open to litigation if you were performing some kind of validation on the uploaded history, and it was then found to be falsified.

Just $0.02

C

Thanks Catman

To avoid fake history, I have been thinking about all the data must be backed up by a photo.
Therefore it's much harder to falsify a photo and I don't think the cost benefit makes sense for the falsifying?
Plenty of platform are using photo as "source of truth", so I hope this mechanism would stopping most fake histories?
I cannot guarantee 100% authenticity but if we could get to 90% accuracy, it's a great starting point.

I don't think I will validating the service history rather than provide a "rating recommendation"
And in the future I can work with insurance company to provide insurance premium discount when a car has "A rating recommendation"

What do you think about this?

 

[CatmanV2]

Therefore it's much harder to falsify a photo and I don't think the cost benefit makes sense for the falsifying?

You can't print a faked service document, then take a photo of that document?

C

 

[thomasyan]

I just scan it and upload it to One Drive and have an excel spreadsheet that lists all the work from the inception of the car. The next owner can be sent that file and can verify/spot check with the garages etc. I also have the physical records in the loft (the older ones)

Great work Devon! I thought about doing this myself previously.

But would it be much better if we can leverage these data to help car owners?
Storing everything in excel & pdf meaning these data are "dark".

Once we have make them "live", we can do some amazing things like:

1. Auto reminder for your MOT/ service
2. Rate history to get discount for insurance premium
3. Help you easy to book next service/ repair
4. Personal info blocked so your privacy is protected

There are much more but I am just listing some potentials, are you willing to upload?

 

[MarkMas]

These already exist. See https://www.getpatina.com/ for example and there are others too.

This is rule 1 of the Web: If you think of a smart new idea, someone will have already done it.

One drunken evening, I had a brilliant idea to set up a website called 'Goat Compare' and then sell it to the comparison site. So I typed in the URL www.goatcompare.com and it went straight to GoCompare. Although I see the domain is for sale now. $16,000 anyone?

BUT, I do think this is part of a bigger idea:
For several years I have been vaguely prototyping an online service that holds ALL your documents in one place. Basically a big secure database, and a front-end that lets you scan all the bits of paper in your life and intelligently identifies and files them. So if you want to find your NI number or see when you last flew with Lufthansa, you can easily find the answer on your phone or desktop.

TripIT was supposed to do this for all Travel info, but never really, er, took off.

But just doing this for a bunch of random garage stamps seems not really worthwhile, I'm afraid.

 

[thomasyan]

Dealers are less and less interested in passing on paperwork due to GPDR which is a massive cop out. I sold an M3 recently with a great pile of history paperwork that just got shredded as the dealer wasn’t interested in anything other than stamps in a book. Not sure a digital version will change that and only real enthusiasts while chase history down independently.

Thanks c4sman, this is also my own painpoint!

So I have been thinking about adding a functionality of blocking personal info when car owners are uploading their receipts.
Therefore the remaining record in this platform is purely related to this car, so your hard-saved receipts won't disappear.
It would also protect the owner when sharing/ transfer this record to its next owner.

Do you think you would use it?

 

[CatmanV2]

This is rule 1 of the Web: If you think of a smart new idea, someone will have already done it.

Didn't used to be. We had a prototype Wowcher type thing back in the early 00s. Couldn't get the businesses to sign up, sadly.

For several years I have been vaguely prototyping an online service that holds ALL your documents

Might be able to help with the tech on that.....

C

 

[thomasyan]

Something like this, as well as having a paper copy may make sense, but why not just scan you records into. pDF file on your PC ?

Great question Scaf!

The data in your scanned pdf are "dark data".
But wouldn't it be much better if we can leverage these data to help car owners?


Once we have make them "live", we can do some amazing things like:

1. Auto reminder for your MOT/ service
2. Rate history to get discount for insurance premium
3. Help you easy to book next service/ repair
4. Personal info blocked so your privacy is protected

There are much more but I am just listing some potentials, are you willing to upload?

 

[MarkMas]

Here is a screenshot from a prototype. But I don't think it can work if you have to enter the data manually. You need a good AI front end to take a scanned document and make sense of it.

 

[thomasyan]

You can't print a faked service document, then take a photo of that document?

C

Yes you can, but how much effort does it need to falsify a physical "fake paperwork" - I presume quite a lot?
If the effort overweight the benefit, not sure why many people would do it?

 

[thomasyan]

Here is a screenshot from a prototype. But I don't think it can work if you have to enter the data manually. You need a good AI front end to take a scanned document and make sense of it.

View attachment 110257

Woooow Mark, this is amazing!
So you built this prototype for all your personal data not only for cars?

I have been thinking about using OCR AI packages to automatically read data from the upload, either a photo or a pdf, and only allow minor changes from the car owner to correct mis-read.

How are these data input now? manually typing?

 

[Phil H]

I think I'd rather just archive invoices and compile one of these:

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[CatmanV2]

Yes you can, but how much effort does it need to falsify a physical "fake paperwork" - I presume quite a lot?
If the effort overweight the benefit, not sure why many people would do it?

About as much effort as typing a document. My point is that once you have any document, taking a photo is so trivial as to be pointless unless the document itself is already official / verified

C

 

[c4sman]

Thanks c4sman, this is also my own painpoint!

So I have been thinking about adding a functionality of blocking personal info when car owners are uploading their receipts.
Therefore the remaining record in this platform is purely related to this car, so your hard-saved receipts won't disappear.
It would also protect the owner when sharing/ transfer this record to its next owner.

Do you think you would use it?

I think I would use it, but still not convinced the mass market would which would make it effective. Don’t mean to be negative as I completely support the problem statements!

 

[MarkMas]

Woooow Mark, this is amazing!
So you built this prototype for all your personal data not only for cars?

I have been thinking about using OCR AI packages to automatically read data from the upload, either a photo or a pdf, and only allow minor changes from the car owner to correct mis-read.

How are these data input now? manually typing?

I built some frameworks for Cars, Trips, Medical data, Pensions, etc.

The value seems to be in:
a) a repository for one or two random bits of data like NI number and Premium Bond 'holder number' (of course this is UK-centric)
b) a repository for ongoing lists under a heading, like car history

What I have done is all manual entry (in a spreadsheet), and I have not really kept it up. I am nerdy enough to want to keep all this data somewhere, but too lazy to actually do it.

Scanning is easy, especially if you have a good scanner, like the Fujitsu Scansnap that I use.

OCR is fairly simple, although some formats (notably Barclays Bank statements) are very troublesome.

But 'understanding' the OCR is much harder. But at 'level 1', if I were to tell the system what it is getting (Expedia Itinerary, MOT Certificate, or whatever, then it would be pretty simple to allocate the OCR data to fields, I suppose. Someone would have to build loads of import filters. This certainly exists (and works pretty well) for scanning receipts into expenses systems, but would need to be much broader. And international, and multilingual.

The big issues are:

• Security
• Import Filters
• Data Model
• Market Momentum

I am a little surprised that nobody seems to have put something together that's is interesting enough to raise $100,000 and then $5m and then sell to Microsoft .

 

[MarkMas]

I think I'd rather just archive invoices and compile one of these:

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Shop online at Motor Folios here. Discover what type of folio suits you and your preferences. We have a range for our customers to choose from. We are also available for a call regarding any bespoke orders. The company strives on fulfilling your needs doing whatever it takes to ehance the legacy of

www.motorfolios.com

I would be VERY willing to sell you a ring binder for £90!

 

[Devonboy]

Great work Devon! I thought about doing this myself previously.

But would it be much better if we can leverage these data to help car owners?
Storing everything in excel & pdf meaning these data are "dark".

Once we have make them "live", we can do some amazing things like:

1. Auto reminder for your MOT/ service
2. Rate history to get discount for insurance premium
3. Help you easy to book next service/ repair
4. Personal info blocked so your privacy is protected

There are much more but I am just listing some potentials, are you willing to upload?

probably not as

1. I have a diary
2. already at max ncd with Admiral Multicover
3. I know SportsItalia’a number and the number of Maserati specialists is low…
4. My personal info is currently locked securely on my one drive account.
5. No additional fees

 

[bigbob]

This is rule 1 of the Web: If you think of a smart new idea, someone will have already done it.

Agree and it applies to most areas where people think they are being innovative. A quarter of a century ago a few of my then colleagues lost a lot of money with a revolutionary idea to move lots of shopping online. They were quite right but the business inevitably failed due to not having enough money, having the wrong management, pitching to the incorrect clients, being unfortunate enough not to meet the right people in a random wine bar etc etc.

In my view for every success sorry that occurs there will be several other people who had essentially the same idea at around the same time but for an apparent random set of reasons they were not the ones to make it work.

 

[MarkMas]

Agree and it applies to most areas where people think they are being innovative. A quarter of a century ago a few of my then colleagues lost a lot of money with a revolutionary idea to move lots of shopping online. They were quite right but the business inevitably failed due to not having enough money, having the wrong management, pitching to the incorrect clients, being unfortunate enough not to meet the right people in a random wine bar etc etc.

In my view for every success sorry that occurs there will be several other people who had essentially the same idea at around the same time but for an apparent random set of reasons they were not the ones to make it work.

Oh yes, you can definitely be too early, as well as getting other things wrong!

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