Porsche and the art of marketing

[flexwing]

I own both a 996 Turbo and a Gransport.

They are two very different cars. I enjoy them both in their own way.

Both have been very reliable. The Turbo over 10 years and the GS over 6 years. Though there are plenty of people who have suffered unreliable expensive maintenance.

Porsche has many indy specialists. And main dealers offer very good pricing on servicing 'modern classics' which includes the 996 Turbo. I just had my Turbo serviced at Main Dealer for a big 'major' service (8.5 hrs book time with spark plugs) and brake fluid change and the price was just over £100 more than a specialist. Who would give up a main dealer stamp for £100?

The vehicle health check showed NIL needed doing.

So I asked for the 48k additional items to be done even though the car was at 45k - replace serpentine belt and replace fuel filter. An extra £200 and a specialist quoted £120. Main dealer work carries 2-year warranty on parts and labour.

The Turbo is the dry-sump Mezger engine. It is bullet-proof. Unlike m96 and m97 (pre-DFI engine) which I would not touch unless they have had a FULL Hartech rebuild with Nikasil liners.

It is and remains very quick. It can still outgun many cars with boy-racer drivers.

The secret to keeping maintenance costs low and reliability high?

Simple:

1. Buy a well-sorted example with impeccable history and condition. This is often a car that has a high sticker price versus the herd of dogs and thrashed cars out there. There is a reason why it has a higher price as much as a reason why a car has a lower price.

2. Stay on top of everything. Don't put off items. Avoid a list building up that was manageable in bite sizes but is now a £5k list of 'advisory work' from prior neglected service recommendations.

3. Don't take short cuts. For example the rear brake pipes mean an engine drop on a turbo. Shortcut trying to run it on a shoestring is to avoid engine drop and use kunifer manually-bent pipework as opposed to the porsche pre-formed pipe. A buyer with any sense will have a PPI. When I see shortcuts accompanying a prospective Turbo purchaser, I just tell them to walk away. Where else have shortcuts been taken?

Porsche Turbo and GT3 are lovely cars.
The Gransport is a lovely car.

Neither is cheap to maintain to the service schedule. Taking shortcuts leads to costly maintenance. And for Porsche, checkout indys versus main dealers for service pricing for 'modern classics'. The indys will use Euro Car Parts service components. The main dealer will only use Porsche-supplied parts. May mean nothing to many. It does mean something to me (and I dont want to start a bun fight over main dealer parts versus ECP).

Totally agree with these comments. I bought from 9 Excellence and paid a full price but the car has been retailed and maintained by them over the last 15 years, has full history and 54k miles. Totally tight and everything works as it should.

 

[cheshiremaserati]

Totally agree with these comments. I bought from 9 Excellence and paid a full price but the car has been retailed and maintained by them over the last 15 years, has full history and 54k miles. Totally tight and everything works as it should.

Ken Napier at 9Excellence is really good. He occasionally has a customer car being sold on customer's behalf. It will be a good car if Ken is offering the car for sale.

There are (in my opinion) around a dozen really good indys that I know of. There will be others, I just haven't come across them. Some (even in the former group) are almost as expensive as main dealer for servicing, with some actually dearer than main dealers.

Main dealers still are very good on pricing for parts.

 

[P5Nij]

Some more examples of Porsche's simple but effective promotional / advertisement material...

 

[Mavster]

I've had several over the years. When they spring a fluid leak then you are into several £k spend. They feel like gocarts, but the fast ones sound **** unless heavily modified.

 

[Wattie]

Just got home and the “Wheeler Dealer” 997 they purchased with “Bore Score” episode is on.
An interesting watch and a great transformation and result.



Luckily for them they negotiated doing a lot of the work themselves at “Hartech” for £3500……..for mere mortals it would be £10,000 + they stated!

Tread warily if buying one!

 

[cheshiremaserati]

Just got home and the “Wheeler Dealer” 997 they purchased with “Bore Score” episode is on.
An interesting watch and a great transformation and result.

View attachment 106625

Luckily for them they negotiated doing a lot of the work themselves at “Hartech” for £3500……..for mere mortals it would be £10,000 + they stated!

Tread warily if buying one!

The 996 and 997 pre-MY2009 pre-DFI except the Turbo, GT2 and GT3 are the models to suffer bore scoring. IMS is a sudden catastrophic failure. Far more succumb to bore score.

That's why I do not recommend these non-Metzger engined cars unless they have had all 6 liners replaced with Nikasil liners (as in the Turbo) and other modifications that Baz Hart says are needed to address, what appears now, based on numbers, to be the inherent design flaws of the m96 and m97 pre-DFI engines.

The metzger engine does not have an IMS and therefore has no IMS bearing - in case anyone was unclear if a Turbo engine can suffer IMS bearing failure.

The Metzger engine is a full dry-sump bulletproof unit. But it'll cost you to get into a Turbo or GT3. The price difference is big for a Turbo vs m96/m97 cars. Clean sub-50k 996 turbo with strong history and manual box will still be £50k with GT3 cars at least 50% extra (or more). Anything with the coveted RS badge blows the price of a GT3 Clubsport into the weeds.

RS cars are highly sought and have been well marketed. Many never appear in ads and are sold before they reach an ad.

 

[cheshiremaserati]

Just got home and the “Wheeler Dealer” 997 they purchased with “Bore Score” episode is on.
An interesting watch and a great transformation and result.

View attachment 106625

Luckily for them they negotiated doing a lot of the work themselves at “Hartech” for £3500……..for mere mortals it would be £10,000 + they stated!

Tread warily if buying one!

A full Hartech rebuild for scored bores is around £14k inc VAT. That is a cost that is never recoverable on a £20k - £25k car. But it does make it more appealing to a buyer to know someone else had the painful surgery done. The best buy would be a Hartech full rebuild to their full recommendations and then maintained on the Hartech Gold Plan maintenance agreement.

 

[Vampyrebat]

Terrific cars from my experience.
My second 911 was a C4 Cabriolet. lapis blue Metallic with Savannah Beige Interior. lowered.
Had it in Bahrain and served me well on my Saudi Trips.
Awful picture but color film had only just been invented

View attachment 106573

Had to watch driving through the desert if it was windy as it would sand blast your paint off……and block up your cooling fans and send them out of balance!

I also had a Lapis blue 996 back in the day!

 

[Church of Noise]

For those of you who are interested in the artwork, there's a very good book on the guy who was responsible for a lot of it from the early days, Erich Strenger:
Erich Strenger and Porsche. I have it and would recommend it.

 

[Ewan]

After much deliberation, I agreed a deal on another 911 yesterday.
I decided I wanted it to provide the most pure and analogue 911 driving experience, so it needed to be:
manual
coupe
narrow bodied
2 wheel drive
non-Turbo
no electric steering
not overloaded with pointless extras

It also needed to be useable as a daily driver, rather than as a track car, so I wanted normal seats and belts, and road relevant suspension and ride height.

So having thought through the various options and ages/models, I settled on a 2010 (Gen 2) 997 Carrera 2, in the (boring) traditional silver with black interior.

Hopefully I’ll pick it up from the dealer late next week.

And if ICE cars do have a future value in the forthcoming age of EV, I’m thinking this 911 has at least half a chance of doing okay.

 

[Andyk]

Great car Ewan. Look forward to seeing pictures when you get her.

 

[mjheathcote]

After much deliberation, I agreed a deal on another 911 yesterday.
I decided I wanted it to provide the most pure and analogue 911 driving experience, so it needed to be:
manual
coupe
narrow bodied
2 wheel drive
non-Turbo
no electric steering
not overloaded with pointless extras

It also needed to be useable as a daily driver, rather than as a track car, so I wanted normal seats and belts, and road relevant suspension and ride height.

So having thought through the various options and ages/models, I settled on a 2010 (Gen 2) 997 Carrera 2, in the (boring) traditional silver with black interior.

Hopefully I’ll pick it up from the dealer late next week.

And if ICE cars do have a future value in the forthcoming age of EV, I’m thinking this 911 has at least half a chance of doing okay.

Started reading, and thought, no such Porsche exists?
Then read you are buying an old one

 

[Ewan]

Started reading, and thought, no such Porsche exists?
Then read you are buying an old one

The wait time on a basic new Carrera is 2 years. So buying new isn’t an option.
But that said, the new T (as launched about a week ago) sounds like a good car. It would be what I’d order if I were to decide to go the new car option and put up with the wait.
Obviously the fancy stuff (GT3 etc.) can not even be ordered.

 

[Gazcw]

Terrific cars from my experience.
My second 911 was a C4 Cabriolet. lapis blue Metallic with Savannah Beige Interior. lowered.
Had it in Bahrain and served me well on my Saudi Trips.
Awful picture but color film had only just been invented

View attachment 106573

Had to watch driving through the desert if it was windy as it would sand blast your paint off……and block up your cooling fans and send them out of balance!

Man at C&A

 

[Ewan]

Here’s my new addition:

 

[c4sman]

Here’s my new addition:
View attachment 107676

Congrats, looks a lovely example. I’m in my 9th year of owning my 997.2 manual coupe and still going strong…… excuse to post a car pic

 

[Ewan]

The GTS is the pinnacle, and one for me to aim for in the unlikely event they ever depreciate!

 

[Koz]

The 996 and 997 pre-MY2009 pre-DFI except the Turbo, GT2 and GT3 are the models to suffer bore scoring. IMS is a sudden catastrophic failure. Far more succumb to bore score.

That's why I do not recommend these non-Metzger engined cars unless they have had all 6 liners replaced with Nikasil liners (as in the Turbo) and other modifications that Baz Hart says are needed to address, what appears now, based on numbers, to be the inherent design flaws of the m96 and m97 pre-DFI engines.

The metzger engine does not have an IMS and therefore has no IMS bearing - in case anyone was unclear if a Turbo engine can suffer IMS bearing failure.

The Metzger engine is a full dry-sump bulletproof unit. But it'll cost you to get into a Turbo or GT3. The price difference is big for a Turbo vs m96/m97 cars. Clean sub-50k 996 turbo with strong history and manual box will still be £50k with GT3 cars at least 50% extra (or more). Anything with the coveted RS badge blows the price of a GT3 Clubsport into the weeds.

RS cars are highly sought and have been well marketed. Many never appear in ads and are sold before they reach an ad.

Not just those models. I know of somebody in our Chapter of Porsche Club GB who had bore scoring on his 991. I don’t have to worry about all that cobblers. I’m air cooled.

 

[Ewan]

Just to add some balance and reality, it should be pointed out that there are far more stories about bore-score than there are actual examples. We have three early 997's here - two C4S models, and one C2S model. One with 75k miles, one with 65k miles and one with 50k miles. All have been checked recently and are spot on, with no scoring. Indeed, over the last 20 years I've had several friends have a variety of 996 and 997 cars, and none have ever suffered from IMS/RMS issues or bore scoring. Maybe we are all just lucky.

But yes - it's definitely something to check on the early 997's and 996's before buying one, just nothing to be scared of. And it shouldn't put anybody off from buying a good example, as they are fantastic cars for the money.

 

[mjheathcote]

Just to add some balance and reality, it should be pointed out that there are far more stories about bore-score than there are actual examples. We have three early 997's here - two C4S models, and one C2S model. One with 75k miles, one with 65k miles and one with 50k miles. All have been checked recently and are spot on, with no scoring. Indeed, over the last 20 years I've had several friends have a variety of 996 and 997 cars, and none have ever suffered from IMS/RMS issues or bore scoring. Maybe we are all just lucky.

But yes - it's definitely something to check on the early 997's and 996's before buying one, just nothing to be scared of. And it shouldn't put anybody off from buying a good example, as they are fantastic cars for the money.

Recall my freind with a series one 997 C4s, it had bore scoring covered under factory warranty at the time. That would have been over 15 years ago.