Ouch. Think my clutch has just gone.

[Kyle4200]

I'm also still having trouble cracking this one,

Yesterday I woke the car up out of winter hibernation, battery reset, a quick boost on the battery before starting her up.
The issue that I've had before comes back from when I replaced one of the EV pipes after it has split, losing all the hydraulic fluid. Upon replacing this with a new one and filling up with new fluid the car would engage into 1st and then bite on the clutch, it wouldn't then go back into neutral so I just turned it off. With the engine on and back in neutral the F1 pump seemed to prime every 8 seconds, at this point we started again, bled the whole system again and again, adjusting the bypass screw until the pump didn't prime for 2 minutes which seemed good. Now with the engine off and no access to an SD reader, I cycled through the gears, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 but not able to get to 6 before jumping back to N, also have a hard time getting into R, it takes a while for it to get into 1st (usually 2 or 3 taps of the paddle). I did this so many times yesterday that the car wouldn't start. Battery Dead.

Maybe this is the next port of call. A new battery and a PIS set up.

 

[conaero]

It does sound like the PIS is not set and you need to do this with SD or you'll be on a hiding to nowhere.

Get in touch with Mike Roberts, he's only just up the road in Farnham and has the SD, he would probably come out to you for a small fee. You can get him to cycle the gearbox perimeters too at the same time.

 

[safrane]

Martytn. You won't regret the new clutch despite the cost... makes the gear change feel like new and so much quieter.

 

[Contigo]

Agreed when my GTS had a new clutch it was like getting a new car back, even Matt at Giallo had never driven one with a new clutch and was very impressed.

 

[voicey]

I'm also still having trouble cracking this one,

Yesterday I woke the car up out of winter hibernation, battery reset, a quick boost on the battery before starting her up.
The issue that I've had before comes back from when I replaced one of the EV pipes after it has split, losing all the hydraulic fluid. Upon replacing this with a new one and filling up with new fluid the car would engage into 1st and then bite on the clutch, it wouldn't then go back into neutral so I just turned it off. With the engine on and back in neutral the F1 pump seemed to prime every 8 seconds, at this point we started again, bled the whole system again and again, adjusting the bypass screw until the pump didn't prime for 2 minutes which seemed good. Now with the engine off and no access to an SD reader, I cycled through the gears, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 but not able to get to 6 before jumping back to N, also have a hard time getting into R, it takes a while for it to get into 1st (usually 2 or 3 taps of the paddle). I did this so many times yesterday that the car wouldn't start. Battery Dead.

Maybe this is the next port of call. A new battery and a PIS set up.

I know you don't believe me but your F1 system is full of air and you are at danger of damaging very expensive components. If you're not careful, the money you saved by DIYing the EV pipe will be eclipsed by the bill to put this right. A simple PIS reset will not work here.

 

[Kyle4200]

I know you don't believe me but your F1 system is full of air and you are at danger of damaging very expensive components. If you're not careful, the money you saved by DIYing the EV pipe will be eclipsed by the bill to put this right. A simple PIS reset will not work here.

Hi Voicey,

It's not that I don't believe you, you know far more then me on this matter - it's just I bled it and bled it so many times both from the Clutch end and the Gearbox end, the car was working fine apart from the biting the clutch when stopped in 1st (foot on brake). Then I thought I would bleed it once more, tried the bypass screw for the first time and it all went tits up again. So air doesn't seem to be the issue, there's too many variables, I'm going to replace the battery then try and get a SD or equivalent to me as I cannot drive the car without risking the clutch, when I do manage to get it in R or 1 with the engine on it doesn't want to go to N, clutch smell = switch off.

 

[voicey]

Hi Voicey,

It's not that I don't believe you, you know far more then me on this matter - it's just I bled it and bled it so many times both from the Clutch end and the Gearbox end, the car was working fine apart from the biting the clutch when stopped in 1st (foot on brake). Then I thought I would bleed it once more, tried the bypass screw for the first time and it all went tits up again. So air doesn't seem to be the issue, there's too many variables, I'm going to replace the battery then try and get a SD or equivalent to me as I cannot drive the car without risking the clutch, when I do manage to get it in R or 1 with the engine on it doesn't want to go to N, clutch smell = switch off.

The thing is, you haven't bled all of it. Think of the power unit as a reservoir for high pressure fluid. There are a number of pipes radiating off the power unit that are dead ends (ie: not connected to each other). Access to these pipes are controlled by the EV valves. By opening the bleed valve at the end of the clutch pipe all you have done is bleed the clutch pipe and the power unit. The new EV pipe will still be full of air.

To bleed the EV pipes there are three bleed screws on the back of the actuator. You need to undo these 2.5 turns and then use the SD3 to open the EV valves to force fluid into the EV pipes. The fluid goes down the pipe, past the respective bleed screw and back into the power unit via the big low pressure hose that is connected to the actuator.

 

[Gp79]

Hi Voicey,

It's not that I don't believe you, you know far more then me on this matter - it's just I bled it and bled it so many times both from the Clutch end and the Gearbox end, the car was working fine apart from the biting the clutch when stopped in 1st (foot on brake). Then I thought I would bleed it once more, tried the bypass screw for the first time and it all went tits up again. So air doesn't seem to be the issue, there's too many variables, I'm going to replace the battery then try and get a SD or equivalent to me as I cannot drive the car without risking the clutch, when I do manage to get it in R or 1 with the engine on it doesn't want to go to N, clutch smell = switch off.

Has it run correctly since you replaced the EV hose that failed?

If not it can only be air in the system as voicey said, I would get it transported to someone who can bleed it properly so at least that variable is removed.

After I replaced the F1 pump and had the flexible hose to the clutch removed during rear frame removal I bled it using a vacuum tool, car shifts / primes normally but I will still get it properly bled at next service, just to be sure.

 

[Gp79]

Kyle,
can you post some photo of what your doing as I'm very interested.

I thought the access to the actuator would make this very difficult with it all in place?

 

[Kyle4200]

It looks like I'm going to have to get the actuator off and open these 3x bleed screws then, the thing is I did get the car running before which is strange, this was after leaving the car overnight and fully charging the battery, I had bled from the gearbox end and Clutch end. I drove about 15 miles or so before parking up again, upon doing another bleed just to be certain all the air was out, I opened the bypass screw and continued to 'bleed'. This is when it struggled and I haven't driven it since. Please note when I did drive it I managed to get through all the gears (1-6, Auto, Sport, ICE) up and down including reverse with no issues, it only failed the test where you have your foot on the brake in 1st, after a minute it still shouldn't bite but it was starting to grind the clutch.

Kind Regards,

 

[Fat Arnie]

Hi Voicey,

It's not that I don't believe you, you know far more then me on this matter - it's just I bled it and bled it so many times both from the Clutch end and the Gearbox end, the car was working fine apart from the biting the clutch when stopped in 1st (foot on brake). Then I thought I would bleed it once more, tried the bypass screw for the first time and it all went tits up again. So air doesn't seem to be the issue, there's too many variables, I'm going to replace the battery then try and get a SD or equivalent to me as I cannot drive the car without risking the clutch, when I do manage to get it in R or 1 with the engine on it doesn't want to go to N, clutch smell = switch off.

LISTEN TO VOICEY

He knows far more about this than any of the Indis I spoke to when my car had a bit of a lethargic change. There is a full process for bleed out the F1 hydraulics which he can do using an SD2 emulator. The very fact that 4 posts up a so called reputable Indi did not know what a new clutch feels like (same person could not fix the clutch on my 3200 when it had a fault) is testimony to the need to take your car to someone who knows how to do things properly.


FA

 

[GeoffCapes]

Just spoken with Matthew and it's not good news.

It looks as though the problem I have with my 4200 is the valvebody which apparently is on the back of the gearbox or actuator.
The unfortunate bit is that you cannot get the valve body on it's own. It comes as part of a kit with the actuator and all the rest of the gubbins at about £3,500!!!!!

So plus labour, its a very expensive job.

Think I'll just have a little cry.

 

[CatmanV2]

LISTEN TO VOICEY

In so many ways

C

 

[GeoffCapes]

In so many ways

C

I concur.

 

[Contigo]

Yep the man knows his onions! And Masers

 

[CatmanV2]

Yep the man knows his onions! And Masers

Less good on garlic, I've found

C

 

[leeq61]

Just spoken with Matthew and it's not good news.

It looks as though the problem I have with my 4200 is the valvebody which apparently is on the back of the gearbox or actuator.
The unfortunate bit is that you cannot get the valve body on it's own. It comes as part of a kit with the actuator and all the rest of the gubbins at about £3,500!!!!!

So plus labour, its a very expensive job.

Think I'll just have a little cry.

Ouch, not great news Mark. £3500 + labour!! nothing is ever cheap on straight forward on these cars, i suppose thats what makes them special and people paying the money to keep them on the road. At least you finally know what the issue is now after the long two month wait.

 

[zagatoes30]

Just spoken with Matthew and it's not good news.

It looks as though the problem I have with my 4200 is the valvebody which apparently is on the back of the gearbox or actuator.
The unfortunate bit is that you cannot get the valve body on it's own. It comes as part of a kit with the actuator and all the rest of the gubbins at about £3,500!!!!!

So plus labour, its a very expensive job.

Think I'll just have a little cry.

Ouch, I feel your pain been there and done that. I had discussion with Emblem last year when they said that prior to mine in 2014 they had only done 2 actuators but in 2015 they did 5 and a further 3 last year mostly on the earlier cars. They seem to feel that regardless of mileage the units just seem to have got to an age where failure become more apparent.

There was a waiting list for secondhand units because new ones are so expensive, over £2k for the part only although Eurospares did mine for £1.8k. You could look to see if any of the normal breakers have one, Greg or Dave you might be lucky they normally are about a grand cheaper.

 

[StuartW]

Sorry to hear that Mark, I've not heard of that going before. Can it be reconditioned or must it be replaced?

 

[Contigo]

Ouch indeed, but these cars are not cheap to run or maintain.