NHS

[Phil H]

One practical thing that could be done now, is for the government / NHS England to set a cap on the hourly rate for agency workers, and associated admin costs.
There will always be the need for some agency cover, but it should not be so lucrative at any level, for NHS staff to leave and return via the agencies to earn more for less.
That is would keep more staff inside the NHS and save a fortune on the agency staff, money to be ploughed back into the NHS.
In our business (not healthcare) we pay agencies no more than 7% above our pay rate, allowing a magi. For both the worker and the agency.

Spot on, no cap is barking mad:

Agency nurse paid more than £200 per hour by Swindon hospital

With a shortage of nurses, Swindon’s Great Western Hospital is having to pay extortionate amounts of money for agency staff.

www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk

 

[bigbob]

One practical thing that could be done now, is for the government / NHS England to set a cap on the hourly rate for agency workers, and associated admin costs.
There will always be the need for some agency cover, but it should not be so lucrative at any level, for NHS staff to leave and return via the agencies to earn more for less.
That is would keep more staff inside the NHS and save a fortune on the agency staff, money to be ploughed back into the NHS.
In our busienss (not healthcare) we pay agencies no more than 7% above our pay rate, allowing a magi. For both the worker and the agency.

I am afraid this is quite true. Staff cutting back hours to work for agencies to get paid more for doing the same work often in the same places. We are getting price caps on rents so why not agency rates?

 

[keith]

Just to complete the story, I met a very helpful doctor who was able to examine and ok my mother for discharge. This was around midnight, and my original plan was to try and get her in my little car - a DS3, return her to the care home where they could put her in a wheelchair to take her inside. It was pointed out that even if we could get my mother into the car, it would be all but impossible to get her out of the car when I arrived. Instead they would arrange for an ambulance to take her. I then left and went home, expecting the ambulance to pick my mother up. In fairness they ambulance did take her, but at 11am the following day! Upshot my mother spent the night on a trolley in a corridor! As some of the staff said, the NHS is broken, I would add beyond repair.

 

[Team GCR]

My very elderly father went downhill on Tuesday evening, I called an ambulance which arrived in 15 minutes. We waited about an hour to be seen by a doctor and were in a spanking new resuss area within 2 hours of arriving. His care at the William Harvey, Ashford was excellent. Despite all the scare stories. Maybe it was because he was in acute care, but the nurses were highly trained and plentiful. Unfortunately he passed away in his sleep this morning. My sisters and I have nothing but praise for the NHS, it was a positive experience.

Helen, sincere condolences from both Martin and myself.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Spot on, no cap is barking mad:

Agency nurse paid more than £200 per hour by Swindon hospital

With a shortage of nurses, Swindon’s Great Western Hospital is having to pay extortionate amounts of money for agency staff.

www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk

That's where the issue is, leaching agencies charging what they want.
£2,500 paid to a nurse for a 12 hour shift but what is not stated is that the nurse received all of this. How much did the parasitic agency get? Who owns these agencies?

Forget your politics (like convid @Wattie , open immigration @conaero ) it's simple labour force dynamics. Nurse feels they need more pay, goes to an agency, deprives NHS of a nurse despite training them (an overhead) and agency charges the NHS a kings ransom to supply the same nurse (without paying for their training).

 

[bigbob]

Nurse feels they need more pay, goes to an agency, deprives NHS of a nurse despite training them (an overhead) and agency charges the NHS a kings ransom to supply the same nurse (without paying for their training).

This is exactly what is happening. I don't see why each trust does not ban all their employees from coming back as an agency work. If they want more money/hours then they can go on the bank. I appreciate some people will hop across to another nearby trust but this would stop most of it.

 

[sionie1]

It seems to be a polarising situation where it's not possible to have a nuanced discussion. I will go private wherever possible because it's faster and more convenient for me. The service we've received to date has been exemplary, and we're not using NHS resources (other than as mentioned above) and still paying for them.

All of our experience of the NHS is that there are fabulous individuals mired in a system that is so far below the standard that would be expected of any commercial organisation as to be risible.

YMMV

C

And therein lies the big problem. Anyone saying there needs to be reform or a look at the NHS is immediately shouted down and accused of belittling the ‘great’ nurses and doctors.

 

[Nibby]

That's where the issue is, leaching agencies charging what they want.
£2,500 paid to a nurse for a 12 hour shift but what is not stated is that the nurse received all of this. How much did the parasitic agency get? Who owns these agencies?

Spot on Martin
Some years ago I sent an email to my local MP, regarding the same thing in the construction industry and agencies.

 

[midlifecrisis]

And therein lies the big problem. Anyone saying there needs to be reform or a look at the NHS is immediately shouted down and accused of belittling the ‘great’ nurses and doctors.

Oh don't say a bad word against nurses they are holier than thou...

Which is bulls..t!

Rented my house out to a nurse and her family, kids drew crayons on the new carpets, a horse was grazing on the front lawn, and left the house after 6 months in a right state.

Don't give me that 'you'll be thankful when you need them' cr@p. They're just doing the job they chose to do and are well rewarded for.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Ironically, channel 4 are being sycophants to the nurses right now...it makes me sick.

 

[Scaf]

This is exactly what is happening. I don't see why each trust does not ban all their employees from coming back as an agency work. If they want more money/hours then they can go on the bank. I appreciate some people will hop across to another nearby trust but this would stop most of it.

This is why I have said there needs to be a cap on the fee paid to the agency.

A cap at the right level would stop staff leaching into the agency network for more pay, but allow agencies to exist to provide genuine holiday and sickness cover, allowing trusts to work efficiently.

 

[daverichardson]

I feel as though we are somehow forbidden to criticise the NHS because they are almost saints.
The reality is of course there is much to complain about.
I am not saying they don't deserve a pay increase for the long hours etc but the media drive the agenda
(Next week it will be Celebrity Jungle and following that freezing Ukrainians in the depths of their winter following that another topic)
The NHS is poorly and has needed attention for a long time now but it is unaffordable in the present guise. Radical thinking is required and nobody has the guts to raise those thoughts as we cannot be seen to say anything against that institution

 

[Phil H]

That's where the issue is, leaching agencies charging what they want.
£2,500 paid to a nurse for a 12 hour shift but what is not stated is that the nurse received all of this. How much did the parasitic agency get? Who owns these agencies?

Forget your politics (like convid @Wattie , open immigration @conaero ) it's simple labour force dynamics. Nurse feels they need more pay, goes to an agency, deprives NHS of a nurse despite training them (an overhead) and agency charges the NHS a kings ransom to supply the same nurse (without paying for their training).

Regardless of the agency/nurse split, the key point is that c£2.5k was lost from the hospital budget, and why the trust thinks that is ok is beyond me. Lessons will be learnt, of course, like how to stop the press finding out about financial ineptitude.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Regardless of the agency/nurse split, the key point is that c£2.5k was lost from the hospital budget, and why the trust thinks that is ok is beyond me. Lessons will be learnt, of course, like how to stop the press finding out about financial ineptitude.

The average nurse wage is £37,000 and they are after 19% according to the Communist BBC...

Nurses' pay: How much do you know?

The BBC's Laura Foster tests your knowledge in this video quiz, with five questions on nurses' pay.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[daverichardson]

My GP Surgery publishes GP salaries. The latest figure is more than 2 years old and is an average across the surgery consisting of about 5 GP in total.
The average figure given for GP salary is of the order of £82000pa
In the interests of accuracy I have just been on to their 'new' website and I am struggling to find this information again!
More later.........................

 

[RodTungsten]

An intriguing stat in Private Eye a while ago which indicated that GP’s on average worked 75% of a full time equivalent ‘week’. Somewhat borne out by GP’s in our extended family who seem to survive on a few days a week and weekend locums.

 

[daverichardson]

Ah, £83879pa average across 5GP
Years 2020/2021
Not bad when I have not been able to get an appointment for face to face consultation during the last 5 years!
Or, even get a 'Wellman' clinic (or equivalent)
I even had absolutely no access to my surgery for a weekend whilst they changed premises.
I got my MP involved to little avail
The GPs work across 2 surgeries and have locums nurse practitioners and on and on and on
Disillusioned is not an apt enough word

 

[will-w]

In April my 84 year old grandfather spent 6 hours on the floor, waiting for an ambulance after falling down stairs.

When he was eventually taken to hospital (the William Harvey of course!) he laid on a bed in a corridor for 24 hours before being admitted.

Only after he was admitted did they do the relevant scans to discover that he had a lesion on the brain from hitting his head on the radiator at the bottom of the stairs, and he had a broken collarbone.

He laid in a pool of his own blood for 6 hours. 84 years of age. Type 1 diabetic. Heart and Kidney disease and a history of extremely low blood pressure.

He has now had to be admitted to a nursing home (£1,800 a week!) to spend the rest of his days. He has suddenly developed Dementia since the head I jury.

My experience of the NHS over the last 6 years has been somewhat lacking, but never have I been so furious about its lack of function than I have in the last 6 months.

 

[Nibby]

Regardless of the agency/nurse split, the key point is that c£2.5k was lost from the hospital budget, and why the trust thinks that is ok is beyond me. Lessons will be learnt, of course, like how to stop the press finding out about financial ineptitude.

That’s the thing Phil, if all the money thrown at the NHS was spent wisely the service would be greatly improved but criticism of the NHS isn’t allowed it seems.

 

[will-w]

That’s the thing Phil, if all the money thrown at the NHS was spent wisely the service would be greatly improved but criticism of the NHS isn’t allowed it seems.

Agreed!

The money wasted in Government departments is simply shocking! £1,500+ per day to big prime organisations for a consultant, when they could just pay their staff market rate and attract suitable perm staff..