My car priorities must change

lifes2short

Member
Messages
5,867
well I'm very happy with my CSE's and 100 yard swimming certificate ;), my girls often take the p1ss out of my secondary school leavers certificate and the teacher comments
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,311
I’m mixed about this, I was state educated until 2nd year of senior school when my mother spent her inheritance sending me and my next up brother private. It nearly did for my communist orientated father! It frankly was the worst thing she could have done for a street urchin like me and I failed badly.

All of my 5 went to a CofE primary by us and did well enough. My eldest who was always a bookworm won herself a place at Christ’s Hospital (Bluecoat) School at Horsham and so ruined me financially as fees were £35k/PA, it was however the right place for her and she did fantastically well, see many proud dad posts on here! So buoyed by her success all of my other children were offered the option of going there as well and thankfully none did as it was not the right environment for them. In fact all of the others went on to the CofE secondary school which did them well even though successive heads at the school have seen it decline rapidly.

I guess what I’m saying is think very hard about what is right for EACH child as it may we’ll be different, offer them choices all the way through and support them in anything they want to try. I have been surprised on many occasions by their achievements. I also continue to be poor in £ but rich in life!
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,947
I think I'll echo Newton's last comment. I was public school educated and didn't really enjoy it and didn't really do very well. Plenty of my friends went to state school and got better academic results. I enjoyed the workshop and computer based activities a great deal, and we had tremendous opportunities to kill and maim ourselves in ways I rather suspect would not be permitted.

On the down as a fat, un-self confident kid I was bullied, but almost certainly would have been bullied at a state school.

I hated uni. Mostly because it was full of ex-public schoolboys (I took a year out and worked on a production line in Bedford) and who still thought the environment was the same.

Academically at Uni I did very badly. Failed every exam I took first time around. Had no idea what I wanted to do when I left.

Finally got into IT about 7 years later, and did 'OK'. Landed into a job with the best manager I have ever worked under and things really came together. Probably about 15 years late but it is what it is.

Some kids do really well on that education path. Some not so much. It's about the kid

C
 

rivarama

Member
Messages
1,102
So many brilliant points made. If I was to summarise what I think I heard: the academic difference isn’t really material on average and there’s probably nothing private tutoring can’t offset. The main difference is more about the facilities, more varied level of activity and probably a better and more supportive environment to develop self confidence.
I am clear abt the draw backs as well - regardless of the financial implications.
No decision has been made yet - and this post has definitely made the wife think twice about it. At this stage, we really want our kids to be happy wherever they end up going... and it isn’t guaranteed that they’ll love the new school more.

I also think that a 3 and a 5 yo might not be the best person to tell you which of the school they are happier in - beyond how they just felt that day
 

empzb

Member
Messages
229
So many brilliant points made. If I was to summarise what I think I heard: the academic difference isn’t really material on average and there’s probably nothing private tutoring can’t offset. The main difference is more about the facilities, more varied level of activity and probably a better and more supportive environment to develop self confidence.
I am clear abt the draw backs as well - regardless of the financial implications.
No decision has been made yet - and this post has definitely made the wife think twice about it. At this stage, we really want our kids to be happy wherever they end up going... and it isn’t guaranteed that they’ll love the new school more.

I also think that a 3 and a 5 yo might not be the best person to tell you which of the school they are happier in - beyond how they just felt that day

Have to admit I skimmed the first post and missed the age. At 3 and 5 they wont benefit and can play catch up. Let them be children a little longer. They are unlikely to see any benefit but will soon will resent the longer hours, regiment and homework, while their friends are able to go out and play. I know I did at 8/9/10 going to school 8.30-4, wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase only to have an extra hour or sos homework each night too and only getting to see friends on weekends.

Heck thinking of it my 3 year old barely strings more than 5 words together so paying private fees above what I do for nursery seems a waste to me lol (granted your 3 year old may be more advanced!)
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,311
More than anything is the child's happiness; let them be in control as much as possible (particularly at secondary level and beyond), facilitate their needs, stop and listen to them, even a wailing baby is telling you something, it is up to you to know what it is saying! Are they a bookworm? A mathematician, naturalist, sporting, reclusive, actor???? Feed their imagination and don't EVER tell them what gravity is!

(What I mean by the last one is never say no unless it is to save life)

Whatever you choose it will probably have little influence on their outcome...
 

safrane

Member
Messages
16,917
Made my comments on the previous thread.

I have friends who are very wealthy and have 3 daughters all at private school. I asked their mother what she hoped for them... she replied just happy in what they choose in life.

The Dad earns the cash but is never there (to pay the bills/fees) and mum is left at home... I see it as just a merry-go-round... private school, well paid job, earn £££ to pay the fees for the next generation.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,184
We have been through this exactly and kids are now 9 & 11 with my son just about to come out of private education into a decent local state school. I live in Bell Bar, near Brookmans Park so might be local and happy to meet up for a chat if it will help no problem.

All my family forever were working class and went to poor to average state schools. Myself, my younger brother and old sister all went to the same junior and senior state schools which were OK and plenty decent enough. Our junior state school options were poor so we decided after visiting the school he is at now that my son would go there. It is by far the best decision we have made and he has had a really good start. It has been an amazing school, he has loved it and many teachers hold him in very high regard. I know he would not be the boy he is now if he had attended a different school. It was perfect for him and more than worth the cost. In summary great VFM at this level. Fees were £4k moving to £5k per term at the end year this year.

My daughter is 2 years younger and goes to a very good local private school and again has had a really good start. Very similar to my sons experience and the results, costs and VFM will be the same or very similar.

Now the kicker. My son is 11 now and although his current school (although he has his last day tomorrow morning) runs to 13 we have him moving out of private education and into a very good local state school. For a really 5 key reasons.

One....we didn't find a private school that seemed to fit for him or was as the obvious or natural choice.

Two....the fees ramp up so Haileybury for example would be £7.6k per term for a lower school boarder and £12k for a senior boarder per term.

Three....many kids I see aren't developing a strong fight or hunger in these private senior schools. They have lives that are TOO comfortable and all is too easy. We now want our nice kids to toughen up a bit and learn how to fight (not physically btw!) for things and develop a desire/hunger for things. They will need this in the real world andwill come across others who will have this in spades.

Four....I am not a supporter of full board at this age. I didn't become a parent to not parent my children or hardly ever see them. We will loase them partly in some years to come so want to spend as much time as we can to help, love care and support them.

Five....with the ramp up in fees I feel the VFM factor is being lost. It has cost circa £170k out of our net earnings to put the two children through junior school. We have felt although that is obviously a h3ll of a lot of cash that it still gave good VFM for what we have received. I would be very surprised to say the same if we sent them to a private senior school such as Haileybury in that maybe the cost doubles to over £400k for the next step. I doubt expect I would say that £400k would be great VFM.

We also felt unlike others that the start was more important than the middle. It is much harder IMHO to turn a horrible or complex/difficult child into something different as the damage or difficulty is done. You can toughen a a nice kid up but the fundamentals are strong, sound and you have a good starting point.

Each to their own and all are different so you can only take other opinions and experiences on board then make your own decision. Personally for me with junior, senior, 6th form then Uni for 2 kids likely hitting £1m I think that is a crazy amount of money and doesn't represent great VFM IMHO.

My son was the first child in my both our families histories I am aware of that went to private education. We are not wealthy but comfortable (ish) but have just worked hard and taken some calculated risks. Hopefully our kids can mix our hard old school work ethic, morals, with better (much better!) academics to achieve things we have (yet) been able to achieve.

Key for us as well is that again IMHO academia is not everything. Kids should be kids and should enjoy having fun this enjoying life. They should choose to do something that excites them, that they are passionate about and enjoy each working day. With a good start, support and financial assistance from us they will be lucky to have the opportunity to be able to choose this rather than it choosing them. I can't say I have particularly enjoyed my last 25 years it IT/tech. I am not bad at it, have achieved a fair bit and done OK but what could have I achieved if I was able to do something I truly love for 25 years........we will never know and that is I guess my point and also yours too.

It is all about opportunity and having the option to choose.....not having to do. It is then not motivated by money or anything sinister. For me this is the true holy grail. It is also possible this could make you hugely wealthy in many ways as a potential subsequence. Not a bad place to be......I wish and wonder at what that place would have been like......
 

rivarama

Member
Messages
1,102
We have been through this exactly and kids are now 9 & 11 with my son just about to come out of private education into a decent local state school. I live in Bell Bar, near Brookmans Park so might be local and happy to meet up for a chat if it will help no problem.

All my family forever were working class and went to poor to average state schools. Myself, my younger brother and old sister all went to the same junior and senior state schools which were OK and plenty decent enough. Our junior state school options were poor so we decided after visiting the school he is at now that my son would go there. It is by far the best decision we have made and he has had a really good start. It has been an amazing school, he has loved it and many teachers hold him in very high regard. I know he would not be the boy he is now if he had attended a different school. It was perfect for him and more than worth the cost. In summary great VFM at this level. Fees were £4k moving to £5k per term at the end year this year.

My daughter is 2 years younger and goes to a very good local private school and again has had a really good start. Very similar to my sons experience and the results, costs and VFM will be the same or very similar.

Now the kicker. My son is 11 now and although his current school (although he has his last day tomorrow morning) runs to 13 we have him moving out of private education and into a very good local state school. For a really 5 key reasons.

One....we didn't find a private school that seemed to fit for him or was as the obvious or natural choice.

Two....the fees ramp up so Haileybury for example would be £7.6k per term for a lower school boarder and £12k for a senior boarder per term.

Three....many kids I see aren't developing a strong fight or hunger in these private senior schools. They have lives that are TOO comfortable and all is too easy. We now want our nice kids to toughen up a bit and learn how to fight (not physically btw!) for things and develop a desire/hunger for things. They will need this in the real world andwill come across others who will have this in spades.

Four....I am not a supporter of full board at this age. I didn't become a parent to not parent my children or hardly ever see them. We will loase them partly in some years to come so want to spend as much time as we can to help, love care and support them.

Five....with the ramp up in fees I feel the VFM factor is being lost. It has cost circa £170k out of our net earnings to put the two children through junior school. We have felt although that is obviously a h3ll of a lot of cash that it still gave good VFM for what we have received. I would be very surprised to say the same if we sent them to a private senior school such as Haileybury in that maybe the cost doubles to over £400k for the next step. I doubt expect I would say that £400k would be great VFM.

We also felt unlike others that the start was more important than the middle. It is much harder IMHO to turn a horrible or complex/difficult child into something different as the damage or difficulty is done. You can toughen a a nice kid up but the fundamentals are strong, sound and you have a good starting point.

Each to their own and all are different so you can only take other opinions and experiences on board then make your own decision. Personally for me with junior, senior, 6th form then Uni for 2 kids likely hitting £1m I think that is a crazy amount of money and doesn't represent great VFM IMHO.

My son was the first child in my both our families histories I am aware of that went to private education. We are not wealthy but comfortable (ish) but have just worked hard and taken some calculated risks. Hopefully our kids can mix our hard old school work ethic, morals, with better (much better!) academics to achieve things we have (yet) been able to achieve.

Key for us as well is that again IMHO academia is not everything. Kids should be kids and should enjoy having fun this enjoying life. They should choose to do something that excites them, that they are passionate about and enjoy each working day. With a good start, support and financial assistance from us they will be lucky to have the opportunity to be able to choose this rather than it choosing them. I can't say I have particularly enjoyed my last 25 years it IT/tech. I am not bad at it, have achieved a fair bit and done OK but what could have I achieved if I was able to do something I truly love for 25 years........we will never know and that is I guess my point and also yours too.

It is all about opportunity and having the option to choose.....not having to do. It is then not motivated by money or anything sinister. For me this is the true holy grail. It is also possible this could make you hugely wealthy in many ways as a potential subsequence. Not a bad place to be......I wish and wonder at what that place would have been like......
Rockits - your post really resonated with me.

Spending time with our kids is crucial to us. My wife and I are acutely aware that we really will only have them with us for another 15-16years. Then they will have they own lives/friends/family. Arguably they might not want to spend that much time w us when they reach their teenage years... we might not be as cool as their friends!.
When we initially put them in their current state school, our thinking was that young kids just need love and attention from their parents, learn how to read/write/count, and we thought we could just send them to private school for secondary. Talking to people and reading this thread (amongst others), we’ve revised our thinking lately and your post definitely hit a chord, and made us flip this thinking on its heads.

Our kids are very worldly already, being fluent in 3 languages (my wife being Russian and me being French) and very well travelled (despite being so young) as we travel a fair bit to visit family and explore places. That counts as much as schooling in our opinion.

Is the £1m investment good VFM - probably not... and although it wouldn’t be a problem financially for us over the long term as we are both high earners - it would absolutely require us to keep working until they leave the education system in 16+ years... but then what’s best: 1) keep working hard for a long time to pay for a top education and missing out on the time we have together under the same roof or 2) send them to a good state school / go private for primary only, retire in 4/5 years and be around them full time to help and support them turn in their own adult self....

As of right now, option 2 is definitely where we are leaning towards
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
Fück all that. It's the Information age, no need for formal education, Wikipedia can do it and I'm not even joking. All you need is a willingness to learn and absorb, previously 11+ did that, and opened doors upon doors. Now it's obvious if you interview someone if they are thick or not, or switched on or not.

I applaud that, judge the person not their background/family/education, really winds me up this!!
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
I'm a decent earner, but I've brought 5 kids up by myself, and it makes me feel woefully inadequate when folks talk about £1m being no problem, I've struggled and still do to be honest, my only asset is me and my brain, if not for that there'd be six of us on scrapheap.

Really pains me to say this but some of you chaps need a wake up call. This is why I am and always will be a socialist, like I said I earn a bit, but I give a bit back too, even though I know it's futile, but I do have to say, I'm am irked by this thread.

Rant over!
 

rivarama

Member
Messages
1,102
I'm a decent earner, but I've brought 5 kids up by myself, and it makes me feel woefully inadequate when folks talk about £1m being no problem, I've struggled and still do to be honest, my only asset is me and my brain, if not for that there'd be six of us on scrapheap.

Really pains me to say this but some of you chaps need a wake up call. This is why I am and always will be a socialist, like I said I earn a bit, but I give a bit back too, even though I know it's futile, but I do have to say, I'm am irked by this thread.

Rant over!

I am sorry you feel that way as this thread was not intended to offend or upset anyone.
I am just surprised how judgemental you are when you know nothing about me. You might find this surprising to hear but I am also a socialist and I am giving more than a bit back myself. You might feel this is futile, but I personally don’t - regardless of the amount earned, giving back is the fundamental oil and grease of our society.
I am not going to apologise for having done well for myself, and was only asking for opinions, which I feel I received a lot of deeply meaningful food for thoughts on this great forum.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,184
Rockits - your post really resonated with me.

Spending time with our kids is crucial to us.

Is the £1m investment good VFM - probably not... and although it wouldn’t be a problem financially for us over the long term as we are both high earners

As of right now, option 2 is definitely where we are leaning towards

Glad it helped a bit. All we have done is well researched, discussed and planned. We don't rely on chance although a bit of luck is always nice and welcomed of course. I am not one of life's naturally lucky people so do things a different way.

I agree time spent is key. Sometimes just time can be good doing nothing or little quality but just being there. That can be quality enough in my opinion.

We consciously decided my wife give up work after our 2nd child and she became quite a traditional housewife but also more importantly able to spend masses of time with our kids. To help them, to support them, to help them learn, to play games with them, to read books with and to them, to do stuff with them. We felt my wife has just as an important role to play and see it is a full time job like I have just a different role. Neither are more or less important....both are key to it all working.

I have an office at home and can switch off and have 15 mins in the garden playing with them at any point at any time if I decide. To me that is very valuable and again planned and a conscious decision.

I could earn a lot more gross income working in the city but don't do it for many reasons. I couldn't commute or do a conventional job as I would be very unhappy, would hate it would would likely go nuts or flip one day. We earn enough as we are not extravagant people but this meant a lot of sacrifice and more hours albeit much done when wife and kids are in bed so lessens the impact. However the last few years have been hard and I don't want to work harder or more by actually would like it easier. Financially senior private school would be impossible or push it all beyond the point of worth. You have to ask at what cost.

I think you have done well and should pay yourself on the back. You kids would benefit from a very good private junior school for sure. IMHO the senior school thing is too much or too far if you both will work long hours. What is the point?

Also life is fickle and short. It sounds terrible but we may not be here tomorrow so take every opportunity you can to live for today whatever it is. That quick 10 min kickaround in the garden or a game of netball or anything with your kids when they are.young is massive.

The long term plans are great but at what cost. Spend time with your kids and enjoy it. My dad worked hard and helped give us a good start but IMHO the cost was too great. I am not too tight with my mum, dad, brother and sister as much as I would like. I never had a good emotional bond with my dad or mum and would have preferred it to be different. We all get on and see each other no problem but it is not what it could have been. I can't exlain this too well but I hope and feel we will have better and stronger realtionships with our kids forever. This didn't happen by chance and took work and effort but cannot happen without time. Time and opportunity is key. Lose that and it all falls down IMHO.

Of course I am a fairly inexperienced parent as we all were/are. However I am convinced we are doing a better job than our parents. Which is not disrespectful to them as they did their best. Just that evolution has allowed us to improve and do a better job. Hopefully our kids can do the same. That is the very best you can do and all you can hope for.

I hate waste, inneficiency and have a massive issue with not maximising opportunity or opportunities not being offered, recongised or talent not discovered or utilised.

Option 2 makes a lot of sense to me. We have one life and time is short. Maximise it. Option 2 also allows you to supplement with holidays, extra curricular activity, takes pressure off and changes the whole dynamic. That is our plan as well.

We live a little rural and have a lovely garden and environment for the kids to play, enjoy, explore. Also trying to build a house soon on extra attached land and keep existing house for kids. All this didn't happen by chance. It took graft, sacrifice, planning, discussion and risk. We deserve all we have and then some as we just worked for it and started with zero. However and this is a big thing....we didn't start from less than zero or have massive adversity to get over. That was all the help and start we needed. Some don't start from zero and I massively applaud anyone that achieves anything starting from minus zero. Kids needs to develop some balls or we will have no proper entrepreneurs. We will need these people always. To take chances, to create, to innovate, to amaze and motivate others. Different breed and type of person.
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,399
I have two children in private school, costs are an old GS per year for the pair.

The facilities, class sizes and support are worth the money to me.

I went to state school (a good one) and it didn’t do me any harm.

If you can afford it then do it, if you
think it’s not working later on they can always go back to state school.

Genuinely happy kids who grow into genuinely happy adults is my aim
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
I am sorry you feel that way as this thread was not intended to offend or upset anyone.
I am just surprised how judgemental you are when you know nothing about me. You might find this surprising to hear but I am also a socialist and I am giving more than a bit back myself. You might feel this is futile, but I personally don’t - regardless of the amount earned, giving back is the fundamental oil and grease of our society.
I am not going to apologise for having done well for myself, and was only asking for opinions, which I feel I received a lot of deeply meaningful food for thoughts on this great forum.
I wasn't aiming at anyone in particular, I was probably wallowing in a bit of self-pity, something I tend to do from time to time.

Apologies for any offence.
 

iainw

Member
Messages
3,386
Going to the schools I did undoubtedly changed my life. I am grateful to my parents for giving up the chance to drive nice cars and have a big house to educate me and my brother at one of the best schools in the U.K. Luckily it was in the North of England and although it beat Eton every year (and still does) academically - I never saw any snobbery - and it was filled with hard working working/ middle class boys who wanted to succeed. None of my family have ever been to University, and my brother and I both ended up reading Medicine at Cambridge. It worked for me, but every case is different. Most of you hit the nail on the head- happy, healthy children who enjoy life in and out of school is the key. Good people will make it whatever the environment - and I am sure we all know many successful happy people who didn’t go to University. It’s good to respect everyone’s background and what they made of it. Everyone has a different route.
 

MarkMas

Chief pedant
Messages
9,017
I went to a 'top 10' private school and hated it (my father and grandfather loved their time there). But I would not (back then) have got into Oxbridge and been able to spend my life coasting without it. My wife went to a good-sh Girls' Grammar. We sent our two sons to local primary, then day prep at about 8, then local minor private (boarding) which they loved. Cost approximately a brand new Ferrari traded in every 4 years.

We chose very differently from in my parents' time:
  • Started in state primary (no need for private at 5 unless they are being held back or are bored).
  • Then private prep from 8-ish to get a bit more serious.
  • Nearby senior school, so lots of parental and community contact (might be harder if you are in London).
  • Boarding, so they could immerse themselves in activities which they loved, not spend time in the car or solitary bedrooms.
  • But school was 60:40 boarding, so they could swap out if they hated it.
  • 49% boys, 49% girls. 2% trans/non-binary, obvio.
  • Non-snobby school, where you are judged on how you behave, not how rich your parents are.
  • ...and expected to be grateful, not snooty, for your privilege.
Outcomes were:
  • Nice, happy, well-rounded lads.
  • Excellent relationship with parents - possibly helped by no arguments about homework, laundry, late-night pick-ups, missed busses or whatever.
  • No Oxbridge - ridiculously competitive now and minor private is probably worst preparation. BUT Oxbridge not so important nowadays; maybe even a liability.
  • Boys a bit innocent and wide-eyed about the world - amazed at uni mates who regularly got into fights at school.
  • 2009 QPV not new California
Oh, and it is not 'looking down on' 98% of the population. About 15% of over 16s are being privately educated.
https://www.isc.co.uk/research/