MOT Failure - HELP!

[X1ons]

Afternoon guys

4200 (Manual 2004) went in for it's MOT today and failed - ****

Apparently its failed on (costs in brackets):

Break Pipes (£20 plus 3 1/2 hours labour)
Wiper blades (£15 each)
Rear brakes - hand brake efficiency - discs are rusted and corroded (Discs £215 each/ rear pads £236 set)

Front brakes are also rusted and ideally could do with being replaced - although advisory (Discs £220 each/ pads £240 set)

It's at an Indie based in Ryton (near Newcastle) who are very good.

The prices in brackets are Maserati parts direct.

They have also stated they MAYBE able to clean the rear discs up, although there is no guarantee.

What are your thoughts please? Is it worth cleaning them up???

I've also noted there has been some debate on here re the discs - I will be getting the garage to fit them (I love my car but I'm rubbish at any form of DIY!!). What do you all recommend please???

Thanks for your help as always

Mark

 

[Marc777]

Just had the rear discs, pads and handbrake set up done on the QP. It is not cheap and all the more frustrating when I see how cheap my Brembo braked Range Rover Supercharged was to do last month. That said, I beleive there is little option but to get the work done.

The rear discs do wear and I cannot quite see what the garage mean by cleaning up. If the discs are scored they will damage new pads and so that may be false economy.

Good luck....

Marc

 

[NickP]

Look here http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/showthread.php/3434-Brake-recipe for a much cheaper solution to your brake problem, basically a Ferrari part fits straight on at a fraction of the cost.

 

[X1ons]

I'll have a look Nick - do I need to read all 20 pages or is there a simple parts number etc I can give to my garage to order? Also whats the best re pads?

Marc - I think they talk about grinding the rust etc off the discs. I'm popping to see them tomorrow morning hence I wanted the 'expert opinion' from this brilliant site!

Cheers

Mark

 

[NickP]

Part numbers on page 1

Complete set of 550 ferrari marenello brembo discs front prt No BDS5670 & BDS5671 rear
complete set of pads, I used mintex for mine prt No MDB 1752 fronts & MDB1456 rears

Make sure you check the disks are drilled when you order, best to speak to someone. Here is some other guff and links regarding brakes I stole from another thread... hope this helps:

BRAKE PADS

Ferodo Pads ( Sourced in this instance from Bedford Batteries...courtesy of Conaero.....Post #1)

FDB 998 in stock at £33.50 +vat.
FDB 451 Need ordering £24.50 + vat.

Not entirely sure if these are the same, perhaps some clarification - ( Belfast Brakes....courtesy Conaero #30)

SportsMaserti.com proud to announce Belfast Brake discount offer...
I am please to announce that Belfast Brakes and SportsMaserati.com have negotiated a high performance Ferodo/Brembo(Fedral Mogul) deal to our members....( called Greengrippers)

They are a far superior compound than the OEM fit with higher heat dispersal capability to eliminate brake fade, and ultra low dust so ideal for your OEM drilled discs.

The price, inclusive of postage and VAT is £35 per front or rear set. The beauty of Belfast Brakes, is that you can order over the phone by credit card or paypal.

Please do not confuse these with EBC Green Stuff, because that they are not.

http://www.ebrakes.co.uk/

Phone them on 028 90746436...pay by card.

As to speak to Gary...mention this forum ....both sets of greengrippers for £70 plus postage...hoping it aint gone up! Normally £90 .

PS Am also checking up on a further supplier for a full set of fronts and rear pads......£53 incl VAT........3/3/2011


BRAKE DISCS ( Courtesy of Maserati V8.....post......#17 on http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/show...solution/page2)

As per the post and research done by Maserati V8, these have been exactly match to those fitted to the Ferrari 550 Maranello 1996-2002, both fronts and rears.

These can be sourced from 3 different online suppliers.....(NB One of these suppliers MAY substitute MINTEX made discs instead of BREMBO....PLEASE CLARIFY WITH THEM!!!)

http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/ When I searched for them today ....under their references BDS5670 and BDS5671, they hadn't any in stock, price for both sets £80 incl VAT, not sure about delivery costs.

http://www.apbrakediscs.co.uk/brembo...743&model=9225 Hopefully this url takes you straight to the discs in question....price for both sets £353 incl VAT and free UK delivery ( When I ordered off these guys had to wait 3 weeks for the fronts)

http://www.nextdaybrakes.com/files_part-chooser3 Hopefully takes you to the discs in question, no price for the rears...fronts for a pair £247 ( not sure if this includes VAT)

Sometimes one of the companies above apbrakediscs.co.uk auction on ebay

 

[X1ons]

Nick - thank you so much Sir - I really appreciate the help!

So, if I ordered the following, I would be happy and safe (they have all been tested?):

Discs: Ferrari 550 (front part bds5670/ rear bds5671) approximate cost from apbrakes £353

Pads: greengrippers from ebrakes £70 for front and back. Do I just quote they are for a Massa or for the Ferrari??

So all in I'd be talking about £423???? This is some £923 cheaper than Maserati parts (total would have been £1,346)?!!!

As the car is sitting in the indies garage I'm going to need next day delivery and for the parts to be in stock.

They think to fit the pipes 3 1/2 hours and then 6 1/2 hours for the brakes all round and wipers changed! Does this seem right? Cost of pipes is only £20 and £30 for wiper blades.

I'll read more on the site on the discs etc, but a quick cross check of the above would be great. I'm visiting the garage at 8am and intend to take all this info along. I will then order the parts to be delivered to the garage and they will then fit them. They should be happy to do this shouldn't they?

Thanks again gents

Mark

 

[Easyplan66]

what a difference in price that is a fantastic result.....

 

[dickygrace]

Fair play to you Nick, excellent info there.

 

[Emtee]

Hi Mark,

I'm running the 550 disks and greengripper pads. Both have been fine and, as you will have seen from the other threads, far cheaper than the OEM equivalents. I'm also running brake shoes relined by Belfast Brakes.

Re-skimming is sort of okay depending on the wear and any damage, but it's only a relatively short-term solution. If they're worn, they're worn. Also skimming isn't a simple job to do properly. Done poorly and you could end up with bad brake judder.

Those labour times seem a bit high, particularly if done together, as once the brake calipers are removed (to replace the pipes and change the pads) swapping out the disks is a very straight-forward operation. Changing the pads over is also very simple other than a little bit of time put aside to grind the pad backing plates down so as not to bind. I would have estimates one hour for each front wheel and one and a half hours per rear (bit longer because of the handbrake) and an hour for unforeseen's.

Em.

 

[NickP]

Nick - thank you so much Sir - I really appreciate the help!

So, if I ordered the following, I would be happy and safe (they have all been tested?):

Discs: Ferrari 550 (front part bds5670/ rear bds5671) approximate cost from apbrakes £353

Pads: greengrippers from ebrakes £70 for front and back. Do I just quote they are for a Massa or for the Ferrari??

So all in I'd be talking about £423???? This is some £923 cheaper than Maserati parts (total would have been £1,346)?!!!

As the car is sitting in the indies garage I'm going to need next day delivery and for the parts to be in stock.

They think to fit the pipes 3 1/2 hours and then 6 1/2 hours for the brakes all round and wipers changed! Does this seem right? Cost of pipes is only £20 and £30 for wiper blades.

I'll read more on the site on the discs etc, but a quick cross check of the above would be great. I'm visiting the garage at 8am and intend to take all this info along. I will then order the parts to be delivered to the garage and they will then fit them. They should be happy to do this shouldn't they?

Thanks again gents

Mark

The pads are linked to the calipers rather than the disks so these would be Massa. As far as I know all the info given is correct and there are at least 3 forum members who have done this who could probably give you more info. The disks are the same size and fit exactly but have larger drill holes. I am sure your garage will fit the parts, I have taken parts to Maranello to be fitted as I got them cheaper than they could supply them! 61/2 hours seems excessive for a garage to do 4 disks, an hour per wheel is normal I think, the rears maybe a bit longer because of the handbrake etc.

Please don't credit me, this info is all available here and credit goes to the guys who found all this stuff out!

 

[bigbob]

You will probably need new or re-furbished handbrake shoes as well, although they may just need adjusting to take them closer in to the disc. You can also have the handbrake cable tightened (put the car on a ramp and it is under the car in the middle. Finally if you are putting on new brakes then perhaps replace the brake fluid? After all that, keep the car another two years to justify your investment.

 

[Emtee]

You will probably need new or re-furbished handbrake shoes as well, although they may just need adjusting to take them closer in to the disc. You can also have the handbrake cable tightened (put the car on a ramp and it is under the car in the middle. Finally if you are putting on new brakes then perhaps replace the brake fluid? After all that, keep the car another two years to justify your investment.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if they got in there to find the shoes had de-laminated. The OEM's are cr@p. They need a week or so to turn them around, but Belfast Brakes will re-line for £45.00 plus delivery (IIRC) and the quality is far better.

 

[X1ons]

I had the handbrake shoes replaced with genuine parts in January so they should be fine. I'll look to get them adjusted and the fluid replaced if needed. I wish I'd realised about the relining as would have saved a fortune!

Anything else I should be looking at??

I just hope they can deliver next day!!

Nick - bringing the information together deserves a huge thank you - don't be shy!!!

I'll keep you all posted.

Mark

 

[stylo]

Another one here who has just had the 550 discs + green grippers done by an indie (Autoficcina in Surrey). They are happy to fit these and were shocked at the pricing. Labour was decent at 3hrs. Only just been through a bedding in drive so look forward to seeing the improvement - the old discs were corroded on the inside edges as the pads weren't hitting them - probably gunged up with road dirt? Anyway, now should be a big improvement.

Also - open day at this indie on 11th June - good and drinks and cars, maybe I should walk home after.

cheers
Adam

 

[X1ons]

Morning all

Having visited the garage this morning they showed me how bad the brakes are - the holes on the discs are actually completley blocked up! Also badly corroded.

They are very happy for me to order the parts and they will fit.

Ive ordered the discs from AP Brakes for a grand total of £361.05 - this includes a £7.95 next day delivery charge.

I'm due to speak with Garry at Belfast brakes to order the Greengripers this morning - he was in a meeting and its him I must speak with as I mentioned this forum.

The garage did mention that in the past - Greengippers were better at high speed, not so great at low speed and used to give off a lot of brake dust. I'm assuming this maybe was the case in the past but not now?

Re labour - as you all correctly stated its about 1 hour per corner - a lot of time being needed to clean the calipers correctly. They will then take 3 1/2 hours to fit new brake pipes and fluid. On top of this there is my service - so all in all this is where 10 hours comes from.

They are going to adjust the handbrake and then carry out the service (oil change, filters, checks etc) and fit new wiper blades.

Going to be better than new!

They have also recommended a wire brush and wax oil before next winter. Apart from that, its mint!!!

Cheers

Mark

 

[philw696]

Mark,
As i use my car all year round i take the wheels off every 3 months to clean the brakes i use a cordless drill with a 4mm drill and drill the dust/dirt etc out to keep them in tip top condition.
Phil.

 

[conaero]

Mark TBH you only need to have your rear shoes replaced to pass the brakes. Ok they are rusted so maybe it is time to replace them all, but Belfast Brakes will reline your current shoes for £35 inc delivery and VAT, bargain!

It will be the shoes and not the rusted disc causing the handbrake to fail.

 

[X1ons]

Conaero - due to the rust on the discs - the new pads were not gripping causing the failure. I looked at the discs this morning and there was a lot of corrosion! I had the new pads in January - if only I'd knowm!

Re pads - bit of an issue now - BB (Garry) is not around today and the guy I dealt with had no way of contacting him - and Maserati 4200 pads are NOT listed. Apparently Garry must source them seperately.

So- what do I do if I cant get Greengrippers???? Once more I'm needing a point in the right direction!!!

Mark

 

[conaero]

I have a full set of Ferrodos in my garage they are the OEM Brembo pad reboxed £100 and they are yours.

 

[X1ons]

Hi Matt - are these as good as Greengrippers or Mintex that I've seen metioned on here? Fitting them with the Ferrari 550 discs.

Also - I need them for tomorrow due to car being on ramps in garage....!!!

M