Measurements 4200 shockers

[F456M]

Hi guys.

Again, thanks for a great forum! I have a 2003 Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa with Skyhook suspention. The car has been lowered on the coil-over-style shock absorbers about 3 cms according to an old service bill from Maserati. There is nothing written about replacing the springs to lowering springs, so I ampretty confident that the springs are the factory springs. The way one make the car lower, is to reduce the spring tention by lowering the retaining but and corresponding bottom spring support. This acutally makes the spring be weaker and the car tend to bottom the shockers oon active driving and the car is like a boat to steer at high speed on bumpy roads....

Now the other day, I got a measurement fromanother 4200 owner who has broken the car for part sales. I am going to adjust my shcks back to factory spec, and my question to you is if the shocker/spring unit is the same for a Skyhook versus a non-Skyhook car... According to Eurospares part list, the standard and "sport" suspention (I assume these are the Skyhook ones) are different...

What would be really great would be to get a measurement from the retaining nut at the bottom of the sping to the very bottom of the shocker unit on another Skyhook car so I can duplicate that. Has anyone a set of front + rear shockers that they could measure and ost the length here? Would be very very convenient!

I attach the Pictures which shows 19 cm on the front shocks and 22 on the rear shocks on the std. Coupe Cambiocorsa (I neetd to check if this is a Skyhook car if I manage to get the answer from someone). The seller of the shocks is a breaker, so he does not know muchh about the car at all...

Thanks.

Erik

 

[alfatwo]

You can't do it like that Erik , you have to corner weight the car then re adjust the suspension geo to suite

Dave

 

[F456M]

OK, I have heared about corner weighting, but why can't I just ut it to factory setting? That should be correct for the car... ? How do youdo corner weighting? Thanks!!

 

[ANY]

Hej Erik,

By lowering the car the way described above, to my understanding wouldn't make it softer or the spring tension lesser. The car will still sit with its weight compressing the springs the same amount. However the shock travel will be reduced and that may cause the bottoming out. I lowered my car approx 25mm by the same method and it made the car both look nicer and handle allot better. Maybe 30mm too much? But original height is not very nice either. Wheel alignment and tyre pressure makes a huge difference to the handling as well on those cars.

/Anders

 

[Zep]

These might be useful. It is best to corner weight as Dave says but you will need to start with the ride height roughly correct.

 

[davidhowson]

I adjusted the spring carrier to lower my car by around 30mm and it made a significant improvement to looks and performance. As the pictures above show, the ride height on the GS was lower than its predecessor; this will not make any difference to tension of spring rate as they are not progressive springs. Have you had the geometry checked recently, are you on the same tyres all round with correct inflation pressures. These are more likely to cause symptoms like those you describe. Regards, David


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[F456M]

Thanks ALOT to all of you!

I follow your idea of the weight of the car will compress the springs the same regardless of the position of the lower support (where it is set). However, my idea is that if the car sits higher, then there will be more of a travel length until they bottom the shocks (and the spring). But isn't it true that the more you put tention on the spring (adjusting the lower part up), the stiffer the car will be, because you get less travel length before the spring is fully compressed, even though the shock is not fully in the down position? Just asking If this is true, then to lower the tention (adjust the lower spring support down, and the car will sit lower), the spring will make the car softer?? I like low cars, but for me this Maserati is a "everyday car" to be used when the circumstances allow it to be driven. This means, it have to be high enough to go over obstacles, speed bumps etc. in everyday life. This is also what Maserati inteded these cars to be. I found a 2002 Coupe that was quite high, most likely a Stock 2002 car. How can I get mine (which is about 4-5cm. lower) to become "just perfect"?

My car is unstable over 160 kph... My E46 M3 and 550 Maranello is rock solid all the way up to top speed.... So quite disappointed about the handling. My 3200GT With 110.000 kms. was also notably better. I want to get it higher, and then do a full alignment done. The alignment have been done not too long ago while it was owned by the previous owner, but that was many years after it had been lowered (when it was living its first life in Florida). I assume the alignment will be wrong when it is adjusted on a lowered car? The tires I put on is is not exactly the most expencive, as I went the "economic route" so I installed new NanKang summer tires in the original dimention. The strange thing is that these tires are both front and rear narrower than the wheel rims. They felt very soft and just like Winter tires are during summer. It is like driving a boat! But now when it is almost at the freezing point, they seem to be better. I had 200 the other day, but in a straight line. I did not feel comfortable. I do want a set of GranSport Wheels for 2018 which is 19", so no need to put on different 18" tires now. Well might be for Winter use. But this car is not the best Winter car anyway, so I thought I would let her only og out when the weather is good and the roads are dry tarmac. Anyone else have same experience With tires like this? My plan was not to do a lot of speeding With this car, as it is going to stay in Northern Europe, but the excellent engine etc. makes it difficult not to og fast!! I have to get this car back to factory spec and safe performance as a result. Thanks again for helping me out.

 

[jasst]

Thanks ALOT to all of you!

I follow your idea of the weight of the car will compress the springs the same regardless of the position of the lower support (where it is set). However, my idea is that if the car sits higher, then there will be more of a travel length until they bottom the shocks (and the spring). But isn't it true that the more you put tention on the spring (adjusting the lower part up), the stiffer the car will be, because you get less travel length before the spring is fully compressed, even though the shock is not fully in the down position? Just asking If this is true, then to lower the tention (adjust the lower spring support down, and the car will sit lower), the spring will make the car softer?? I like low cars, but for me this Maserati is a "everyday car" to be used when the circumstances allow it to be driven. This means, it have to be high enough to go over obstacles, speed bumps etc. in everyday life. This is also what Maserati inteded these cars to be. I found a 2002 Coupe that was quite high, most likely a Stock 2002 car. How can I get mine (which is about 4-5cm. lower) to become "just perfect"?

My car is unstable over 160 kph... My E46 M3 and 550 Maranello is rock solid all the way up to top speed.... So quite disappointed about the handling. My 3200GT With 110.000 kms. was also notably better. I want to get it higher, and then do a full alignment done. The alignment have been done not too long ago while it was owned by the previous owner, but that was many years after it had been lowered (when it was living its first life in Florida). I assume the alignment will be wrong when it is adjusted on a lowered car? The tires I put on is is not exactly the most expencive, as I went the "economic route" so I installed new NanKang summer tires in the original dimention. The strange thing is that these tires are both front and rear narrower than the wheel rims. They felt very soft and just like Winter tires are during summer. It is like driving a boat! But now when it is almost at the freezing point, they seem to be better. I had 200 the other day, but in a straight line. I did not feel comfortable. I do want a set of GranSport Wheels for 2018 which is 19", so no need to put on different 18" tires now. Well might be for Winter use. But this car is not the best Winter car anyway, so I thought I would let her only og out when the weather is good and the roads are dry tarmac. Anyone else have same experience With tires like this? My plan was not to do a lot of speeding With this car, as it is going to stay in Northern Europe, but the excellent engine etc. makes it difficult not to og fast!! I have to get this car back to factory spec and safe performance as a result. Thanks again for helping me out.

Very surprised you have put 'nankangs' on a performance car, in this country we call tyres of that sort 'ditch finders', I wont even put them on my van! and the stock tyre widths do appear to be narrower than the rims, someone commented that It looked like I had stretched tyres on!

 

[F456M]

Agree, it is the firt time I have tried a cheap tire on a fast car, but the fact is that the grip is surpricingly good. The old tires had plenty of thread on them, but they were from 2006 (!) so they were hard as a rock, and non of the four wheels were round. I had to straighten all four rims in a jig, and blasted them + new powder coat paint and new tires. So not at all an inexpencive process. So for a change, I tried a set of NanKang tires for the first time. BUT the car was bouncing and bottoming out the shocks on bumpy roads before I changed the tires, so in my case, I have had several problems going on at the same time with the rims, tires and suspention! No wonder I got the car for a low price.... Now, not cheap anymore. Well, the truth is that the extremely low milage and the fact that the car is in a quite good shape and has a great color combination, makes me quite satisfied anyway! About the NanKangs.... They should not make tires for cast which can and sometimes will obtain high speeds, as the road holding is not at all the same! But I will try to fix the car before I change the tires. None of the shocks are leaking oil, so they should be OK. My 3200 leaked oil from all shocks, and was similar to drive. When I refurbished the shocks in the UK, it was a totally different car to driv. Muh more stable when braking hard to. I could not believe it!

 

[Zep]

But isn't it true that the more you put tention on the spring (adjusting the lower part up), the stiffer the car will be, because you get less travel length before the spring is fully compressed, even though the shock is not fully in the down position? Just asking If this is true, then to lower the tention (adjust the lower spring support down, and the car will sit lower), the spring will make the car softer?? I like low cars, but for me this Maserati is a "everyday car" to be used when the circumstances allow it to be driven.

It's not quite that simple I'm afraid. When you lower the car you effectively compress the spring which increases the rate slightly. But this also reduces the available travel so less weight is need to be transferred to the outside of the car before it hits the bump stop. By lowering the car you lower the centre of gravity and the roll centre. The lower roll centre reduces weight transfer to the outside of the car under cornering which can counteract the reduced travel.

So, if you lower the car the suspension “feels†stiffer because of the increased preload in the spring. If you are lucky the lower roll centre will reduce the weight transfer to the point where roll does not cause it to hit the bump stops.

If you have instability in a straight line this probably the geo, most likely there is not enough caster which leads to straight line instability.

In terms of ride height, the MC Victory limited edition is lower still than the Gransport and many have lowered their GS without adverse effect, so unless your ride height is significantly lower than the numbers above, your issue is most likely to be in your geo set up.

 

[F456M]

It's not quite that simple I'm afraid. When you lower the car you effectively compress the spring which increases the rate slightly. But this also reduces the available travel so less weight is need to be transferred to the outside of the car before it hits the bump stop. By lowering the car you lower the centre of gravity and the roll centre. The lower roll centre reduces weight transfer to the outside of the car under cornering which can counteract the reduced travel.

So, if you lower the car the suspension “feels†stiffer because of the increased preload in the spring. If you are lucky the lower roll centre will reduce the weight transfer to the point where roll does not cause it to hit the bump stops.

If you have instability in a straight line this probably the geo, most likely there is not enough caster which leads to straight line instability.

In terms of ride height, the MC Victory limited edition is lower still than the Gransport and many have lowered their GS without adverse effect, so unless your ride height is significantly lower than the numbers above, your issue is most likely to be in your geo set up.

Interesting. I understand your point with roll center etc. However, the car is too low, and I intend to be able to drive it With four persons when needed, so I want it to be much higher. I attach a Picture so you can get an idea of where it "sits" at the moment. Thanks for great input.

 

[Zep]

That does look quite low at the front. Here is an MCV for reference. It looks like you have a facelift 4200 so you will have the same springs as a GS. Good luck getting it sorted.

 

[F456M]

That does look quite low at the front. Here is an MCV for reference. It looks like you have a facelift 4200 so you will have the same springs as a GS. Good luck getting it sorted.

That thing is a true piece of beauty. No my car is not a facelift 4200. It is a 2003. I am looking to Upgrade it to become a facelift though... Or even gransport look for the exterior. I prefer the 4200 interior over the GS interior, even though the GS interior har better fit and finish. And that hyper modern screen is what made me pull the trigger as my 550 doesn't have a screen at all. The 4200 is indeed a more modern car, but with more problems too But Enzo the dog loves them both!

 

[tcrote5516]

I have new Nankangs on mine. Now mind you I would never have bought them and put them on a Maserati but the previous owner did. I'm surprised at how good they are at temp. Below 60 degrees (fahrenheit) they are a joke (but fun to roast off). I'm going to keep them on for a bit and get my moneys worth out of them because in the summer they hook pretty darn good especially considering the price.

 

[F456M]

I have new Nankangs on mine. Now mind you I would never have bought them and put them on a Maserati but the previous owner did. I'm surprised at how good they are at temp. Below 60 degrees (fahrenheit) they are a joke (but fun to roast off). I'm going to keep them on for a bit and get my moneys worth out of them because in the summer they hook pretty darn good especially considering the price.

Interesting. How is your car at higher soeeds (if you have tried). I am thinking above 100 mph.

 

[F456M]

Hej Erik,

By lowering the car the way described above, to my understanding wouldn't make it softer or the spring tension lesser. The car will still sit with its weight compressing the springs the same amount. However the shock travel will be reduced and that may cause the bottoming out. I lowered my car approx 25mm by the same method and it made the car both look nicer and handle allot better. Maybe 30mm too much? But original height is not very nice either. Wheel alignment and tyre pressure makes a huge difference to the handling as well on those cars.

/Anders

Hi Anders. Did you adjust the spring support while the shocks were in the car or did you have to take them out to change the settings? I am planning on doing the job very soon!! Where in Sweden do you have your 4200? I am mostly in Stockholm and Oslo Erik

 

[ANY]

Hi Anders. Did you adjust the spring support while the shocks were in the car or did you have to take them out to change the settings? I am planning on doing the job very soon!! Where in Sweden do you have your 4200? I am mostly in Stockholm and Oslo Erik

Hello,

I am located outside Lund/Malmö and have owned my 4200 since 2005. Nice combo with the Maranello, I had the same plan some years ago, but was too slow and now the 550 prices have gone crazy..

I did lower the car with the shocks / springs installed on the car. It was in 2009, but if I remember correctly I used shortened spring compressors to reduce the load on the support nuts when turning them. However extremely important to clean the threads thoroughly before, and lubricate them. I can read from an old document that I lowered 18 turns front and 16 turns rear, corresponding approx 23mm. Measured between the rocker panel weld and the floor it seems like I then had about 106mm front and rear. I then copied the wheel alignment from a GS.

However the best upgrade I think I have made was to change the brake pads for Yellow Pagid. Makes a bit of noise at low speed when hot, but the stopping power and pedal feel is night & day. Should be suitable also for the 550.

 

[philw696]

Love Malmo many Good times there when working for Toyota.

 

[Swedish Paul]

I live in Östersund but I am usually in Malmö a couple of times a year. I have spent a lot of time there and intend to move south once the kids have left college. It's going to be s long 3 years....

 

[F456M]

I am super thankful for Your detailed replays. This forum really makes it fun to own an "old" luxury sportscar.I will updateyou with more info and pictures when I getthe opportunity to start the work.