Maserati Ghibli II V6 2L - Simulator data

[Nayf]

Seem consistent.
But the cup engines have nothing special compared to GT

That’s not true - the Cup has roller bearing turbos that spin up faster than GT ones. Again, I’ve driven GTs back to back with Cups.

It also has more power (330bhp 2.0, 305bhp 2.8) thanks to an ECU map and exhaust modifications.

Cups also have noticeably stiffer suspension in all modes and more responsive, feelsome steering compared to the softer GT.

This isn’t just Cup owner defensiveness. I’ve driven all types of Ghibli II through my job, with the exception of the Kit Sportivo. They are very different, more obviously 2.8 vs 2.0, but also Cup vs GT and certainly the earlier cars.

 

[stormrider123]

Seem consistent.
But the cup engines have nothing special compared to GT

Perhaps either more boost or compression ratio, or both?
Edit: ECU

 

[alpa]

Yes cup have 3cm shorter and thus stiffer suspension springs.
Well it's good if you found ball bearing turbos faster. Given the poor mapping of these engines I'm surprised but why not.
As per streering I dont see how it can be different. Parts are the same. What can change is the number of cracks in the body frame, many ghibli bodies are cracked and this translates into an imprecise steering.

 

[alpa]

Perhaps either more boost or compression ratio, or both?
Edit: ECU

Probably the boost level slightly higher. But I doubt the 2.0 engine would reach the max pressure below 4000rpm.
Compression ratio of these engines is more or less the same between all 2.0 and between all 2.8 (too low for the period). All 2.0 and 2.8 heads are the same, even though there were at least two cast references. All 24v engines had the same cams and even same spec turbos (to my knowledge). Yes there were ball bearing and thrust bearing turbo versions, but even ball bearing versions were slow to build boost.

 

[alpa]

Here are suspension arms. Please modify pictures to indicate which dimensions you want.
The rear frame is just to explain what it is.
Btw the engine frame on the picture was reinforced. The stock one is too flexible, even though the additional front bar helps. The rear east-west flat connection (that holds the steering rack) is not robust. It breaks (welds break) by applying less than 1 ton of effort on one side while holding the other (the machine was electronically limited to 1 ton and it broke the frame I tested). The welding points should be doubled and edges welded to make the frame stronger. And few other mods are necessary.

 

[stormrider123]

This is a WIP of version 3.1

 

[alpa]

This is a WIP of version 3.1

I think it's quite optimistic about the turbo lag. Especially for the 2.0 version. These engines run too lean for the optimal performance, they run stoichio almost all the time.
Ps: ha sorry, it's 2.8. Well still it's quite optimistic.

I'll add pictures and dimensions of the suspension springs soon.

 

[stormrider123]

I think it's quite optimistic about the turbo lag. Especially for the 2.0 version. These engines run too lean for the optimal performance, they run stoichio almost all the time.
Ps: ha sorry, it's 2.8. Well still it's quite optimistic.

I'll add pictures and dimensions of the suspension springs soon.

Thank you alpa,

For the turbo lag, we'll get back to it later on, it's still "work-in-progress". I still need to improve the aerodynamic model first.

For the suspension, before you measure any parts, with the nice pictures you posted in post #25, I already have a fairly accurate suspension geometry.

What's missing now are basically the shock absorbers and springs. I would like to kindly ask you or someone who's available, to measure the suspension extension travel and the springs dimensions.

For the suspension extension travel, the procedure is simple:
1- Measure the diameter of the tire.
2- Measure the gap between the top of the tire and wheel fender arc.
3- Raise the car until the front wheel is off the ground and measure the gap between the top of the tire and wheel fender. That will give the suspension droop or extension, at the wheel.
4- Repeat for the rear wheel.




For the springs, front and rear, all I need is the following:
1, 2 and 4, respectively: Wire diameter, Outer diameter and Free Lenght.


Thank you all very much.

This weekend I had the chance to see a Ghibli II in person at the Motor Passion expo in Avignon. Wow!

 

[alpa]

The front Cup spring is like that. I thought I had the front one off the strut but as you can see it's mounted. And it's pita to remove. The rear one is stored somewhere off the struts, need to find where.

 

[stormrider123]

The front Cup spring is like that. I thought I had the front one off the strut but as you can see it's mounted. And it's pita to remove. The rear one is stored somewhere off the struts, need to find where.

Last week I tried contacting Eibach directly regarding this code. They said they don't have any info on them, that they were made by Maserati.

Would you please be able to place a ruler on top when making the photos? This way I can have a reference.
Thanks

 

[alpa]

So do I need to take the spring off the strut ?
These springs are supposed to lower a ghibli gt by 3cm everywhere.

 

[stormrider123]

So do I need to take the spring off the strut ?
These springs are supposed to lower a ghibli gt by 3cm everywhere.

No need to take it out. Please, just take a photo with a ruler on top, like the photo below:
Thank you

 

[alpa]

Just taking pictures with a cellphone distords them too much. So I took close views with the ruler distances between centers of spring turns.

Front spring, in all 5.5 turns, 13.8mm diameter painted. Distances between centers are 56, 116, 165mm

White marks are well aligned, they show where a spiral starts taking off. So the front spring has exactly free 3 spirals when installed into the shock.

 

[alpa]

The rear spring has 9 spirals, 12.2mm diam painted.
Free length end to end (not centers) : 315 mm
All pictures present the ruler to show center to center distances
Here are the 6 large step spirals

 

[alpa]

Here are the short step spirals

 

[alpa]

Side by side a stock ghibli gt 2.0 and Cup springs. Stock spirals are 13.5mm thick, the painting looks much thiner, so they both may have the same spiral diameter

 

[alpa]

My GT does not have the engine and gearbox so I can't show you how much is the travel of the loaded and unloaded struts.

More about the video: the supposed flywheel weight is risiculously low. You'd need perhaps 0.5 seconds to bring rpm to 6000 in idle. The crank weights about 16kg and the 2.0/3200 flywheel is, I believe, 5.5-6 kg.
The gear change is much slower first because the clutch pedal is reeealy stiff. And second the gear lever of the getrag6 is far and has some play (unlike on the old ZF5 gearbox)

 

[stormrider123]

Thank alpa!
I'm gonna calculate the rates tomorrow morning.

 

[Nayf]

Mike - best known as SM from Pistonheads forum - was kind to upload the Autocar test with some of the key data that may prove useful.

 

[Motorsport3]

Mike - best known as SM from Pistonheads forum - was kind to upload the Autocar test with some of the key data that may prove useful.

Is that red cup the infamous car owned by Harry Metcalfe at the time?