Joining the electric car club

[Zep]

Appears to me the younger generations for all there abilities to manipulate smart phones, Xboxes and laptops learned so proficiently at school would also have understood in their history lessons the tactics employed by Helen of Troy , particularly seeing as one of the main strategies employed used a method that similarly attacks their very same consoles. Hindsight is a wonderful thing , but tends to imply that something significant happened whilst people were sleeping and going about there business totally unaware their situation was being undermined ..........I see it as history repeating itself on a grand scale and those employed to protect us should wake up to the fact.

The point I was trying to make Loz is that if the concern is around Chinese influenced technology being used to “do” espionage, then that horse bolted about 2 decades ago and is currently grazing in a nice field in Fiji. We all have phones, we are all posting this stuff on an open forum. There is nothing in an electric car which isn’t already in our pocket on our phones.

But of course that assumes that our espionage people aren’t doing the same thing (they are) and that they some how aren’t aware that this stuff can be used like this (again, they are).

If Helen of Troy were around now, she would probably send a parchment of her lady bits to an MP, receive a picture of their bits in return and not bother with the trouble of a wooden horse.

But as this is a thread about peoples experiences with electric cars (and some people saying they don’t like them), so let’s not get too far into geopolitics as that way madness lies.

 

[Felonious Crud]

I'd say in Phils defence thats subjective , technology tends to mean improvement and innovation ,if you call having 60% of the worlds population addicted and immersed for 20% of their day on so called smartphones watching manufactured garbage improvement and innovation "then we are are doomed" when mature adults dont recognise that as not healthy we really are lost and in my view supports those like me and Phil that want to step back a bit and appreciate a period in life where things weren't quite like that

With you on the smartphone addiction thing, Loz. It's a bloody plague, really is. Tech has its place, but when the average TikTok user is spending 90 minutes each day watching short-form content on that platform, even before you start measuring time on Meta's suite of time vampires then, Houston, we have a problem. Part of the impact is that 'we' start to rely on biased or ill-informed sources of news, information and facts. The trustworthy news agencies lose their voice and Twitter, Facebook and TikTok become where gullible people find themselves absorbing the opinions of ill-informed people. It's a messy situation.

Now, to try to clumsily pull this back on topic, I've been told that this is annoyingly good:

 

[Felonious Crud]

... let’s not get too far into geopolitics as that way madness lies.

How would you be able to tell?

 

[Zep]

How would you be able to tell?

Touché

 

[lozcb]

The point I was trying to make Loz is that if the concern is around Chinese influenced technology being used to “do” espionage, then that horse bolted about 2 decades ago and is currently grazing in a nice field in Fiji. We all have phones, we are all posting this stuff on an open forum. There is nothing in an electric car which isn’t already in our pocket on our phones.

But of course that assumes that our espionage people aren’t doing the same thing (they are) and that they some how aren’t aware that this stuff can be used like this (again, they are).

If Helen of Troy were around now, she would probably send a parchment of her lady bits to an MP, receive a picture of their bits in return and not bother with the trouble of a wooden horse.

But as this is a thread about peoples experiences with electric cars (and some people saying they don’t like them), so let’s not get too far into geopolitics as that way madness lies.

Exactly my point Zep , Its all learning curve .......but are people actually learning and using the so called latest buzz word "critical thinking" what is it when you do something that you know is going to hurt or be detrimental, and then you repeat it over and over again thinking or being told you might get a different outcome but your gut feeling says different ........thats what i call madness , and has absolutely nothing to do with geopolitics

 

[Guy]

I think the tide may be turning anyway. The French are just being themselves taking the opposite side to allow a long lunch of debate...;

 

[Zep]

Exactly my point Zep , Its all learning curve .......but are people actually learning and using the so called latest buzz word "critical thinking" what is it when you do something that you know is going to hurt or be detrimental, and then you repeat it over and over again thinking or being told you might get a different outcome but your gut feeling says different ........thats what i call madness , and has absolutely nothing to do with geopolitics

What I am saying is that in my view, because of what we already have, that it isn’t going to meaningfully “hurt” more. I accept and appreciate that you may think differently.

 

[Zep]

I think the tide may be turning anyway. The French are just being themselves taking the opposite side to allow a long lunch of debate...;

View attachment 125712

An interestingly narrow data set. So this is a measure of how many electric cars were registered in March 2024 compared to the prior year? Is this reflecting a downturn in registrations of all vehicle types? Was there an increase in February which precipitated the reduction in March?

So I checked. Overall car sales were down across the EU in March, due (according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association) to the timing of Easter holidays. Overall, sales of BEVs had a dizzying drop from 13.9% of all vehicles sold to 13.0%. Petrol-Hybrids went from 24% of sales to 29%.

I don’t especially care about how many are registered, but it does annoy me when “news” is generated through statistical manipulation.

 

[Guy]

An interestingly narrow data set. So this is a measure of how many electric cars were registered in March 2024 compared to the prior year? Is this reflecting a downturn in registrations of all vehicle types? Was there an increase in February which precipitated the reduction in March?

So I checked. Overall car sales were down across the EU in March, due (according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association) to the timing of Easter holidays. Overall, sales of BEVs had a dizzying drop from 13.9% of all vehicles sold to 13.0%. Petrol-Hybrids went from 24% of sales to 29%.

I don’t especially care about how many are registered, but it does annoy me when “news” is generated through statistical manipulation.

I don't disagree (I originally misread it as March YTD) but I also suspect April will show the same as there seems little desire amongst the private paying public to buy EVs. Companies and company car owners will of course continue whilst the tax incentives are there. Why wouldn't they. Residual values tell the story. I learned yesterday that the highest bid in the trade for unregistered Taycan Turbo S (dealers are trying to offload them) was 72k. I know many people in the trade and they simply will not take EVs in p/ex. This makes private ownership prohibitively expensive unless underwritten by the manufacturer in a PCP. How long can they afford to do that?

 

[gb-gta]

‘Statistical manipulation’ there’s a phrase that could turn into a long thread!

Although my daughter is addicted to the smart phone, like most are, she has said she wished she grew up in the 80’s/90’s.

 

[Guy]

‘Statistical manipulation’ there’s a phrase that could turn into a long thread!

Although my daughter is addicted to the smart phone, like most are, she has said she wished she grew up in the 80’s/90’s.

so do I but that's because I grew up in the 60/70s!!

 

[CatmanV2]

‘Statistical manipulation’ there’s a phrase that could turn into a long thread!

Although my daughter is addicted to the smart phone, like most are, she has said she wished she grew up in the 80’s/90’s.

so do I but that's because I grew up in the 60/70s!!

I win! I *did* grow up in the 80s. And it was epic!

C

 

[Zep]

I don't disagree (I originally misread it as March YTD) but I also suspect April will show the same as there seems little desire amongst the private paying public to buy EVs. Companies and company car owners will of course continue whilst the tax incentives are there. Why wouldn't they. Residual values tell the story. I learned yesterday that the highest bid in the trade for unregistered Taycan Turbo S (dealers are trying to offload them) was 72k. I know many people in the trade and they simply will not take EVs in p/ex. This makes private ownership prohibitively expensive unless underwritten by the manufacturer in a PCP. How long can they afford to do that?

To quote the SMMT, private buyers aren’t buying cars of any sort in the volumes they were:



And for the U.K, sales of BEV and PHEV cars are surging, which might be because of the tax situation, and perhaps because 75% of all car journeys in the UK are less than 5 miles in length and 90% of the population aren’t petrolheads like us and so don’t care what it sounds like or whether it runs on dinosaurs or electrons.



Would it be fair to say that that **** residuals are better for the vast majority of people who don’t buy new cars?

 

[Felonious Crud]

I win! I *did* grow up in the 80s. And it was epic!

C

You grew up, did you? Oh, I don't think so!

 

[CatmanV2]

You grew up, did you? Oh, I don't think so!

Umm, yeah. Good point.

"I win! I went through puberty in the 80s. And it was epic!" (Not the puberty, obviously. That bit sucked. But the 80s! THEY WERE AWESOME!)

C

 

[joered]

Some Gov figures for electric cars by 2030 (6 years away) the aim 80% of all new cars to be electric and 70% of vans
By 2035 all vehicles to be electric with a fine of £15,000 for cars and £9,000 for vans for each non electric car that a car company produces.
They will never achieve these figures in my opinion.

 

[Zep]

Some Gov figures for electric cars by 2030 (6 years away) the aim 80% of all new cars to be electric and 70% of vans
By 2035 all vehicles to be electric with a fine of £15,000 for cars and £9,000 for vans for each non electric car that a car company produces.
They will never achieve these figures in my opinion.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is a fine per vehicle sold paid by the manufacturer if they miss their target proportion?

 

[joered]

For the avoidance of doubt, this is a fine per vehicle sold paid by the manufacturer if they miss their target proportion?

As far as I understand it a fine for all non electric cars.

 

[safrane]

For the avoidance of doubt, this is a fine per vehicle sold paid by the manufacturer if they miss their target proportion?

I guess this will just lead to more BEVs being 'sold' by dealers and then advertised as used demonstrators.

 

[gb-gta]

I win! I *did* grow up in the 80s. And it was epic!

C