f1 pump help?!

[karatemaserati]

ambling along just now, 50 mph or so, CC light comes on cant change gears. luckily got to a layby

battery reset... nope.

check FD DBWM connections... nope

open door to check pump sound... no pump sound.


is there a chance its just a relay or a fuse or if either of these go does it fry the pump aswell????


thanks

 

[Andy]

First thst comes to my mind is check the fluid-level.

 

[CatmanV2]

Relay can fail in two ways:
Open: You go nowhere but the pump is safe
Closed: Pump runs all the time, overheats *hopefully* the fuse blows before the pump fails, or any lasting damage is done.

So
1) Fuse
2) Relay
3) Pump

Clearly 1 and 2 are way preferable but 3 is not that bad these days. £140 for an upgraded pump and some labour. Craig has (if I recall) done a how to for DIY change.

You know the pump sound when you open the door (obviously) Was it running continuously? I'd *expect* that if it was stopping you may be lucky but.....

C

 

[mjheathcote]

Would defo check fuse and relay first.
How's the FD DBWM been since you fitted it, good?

EDIT: BMW relay!

http://www.sportsmaserati.com/showthread.php/8629-F1-pump-relay-BMW-alternative?highlight=relay

 

[safrane]

Give the pump a gentle tap as it may have just stuck like an old fuel pump.

 

[karatemaserati]

checked the 2 fuses 13 and 14 in the top corner and they look ok.

how do i remove the relay?? does it just pull out from the top like the fuses?? maybe its stiff

also as mentioned where is the reserviour located so i can check the level??

and re tapping the pump where is it located can i do this from the roadside??

 

[karatemaserati]

oh and ace by the way mj cheers!

 

[CatmanV2]

Yes it pulls up. Can well be tight.

The reservoir is underneath (unless you're craig) and you have to lie down, unscrew the cap and dip your bent finger in.

Pretty sure you can't reach the pump without removing the boot liner and heat shield....

C

 

[karatemaserati]

ok cool, can i tell just by looking at the relay weather its knackered? also can i tell just by looking weather it is open/closed or if the pump will be goosed?

 

[safrane]

Where are you stranded?

 

[karatemaserati]

in a layby just inside cornwall near my mums

 

[safrane]

Sadly a little to far for me to pop down with a trolly jack and other bits.

 

[mjheathcote]

oh and ace by the way mj cheers!

Thats good glad to know.

in a layby just inside cornwall near my mums

Thats not good.
If the fuses are okay, if it is a relay (yes it is a bugger to pull out, top right of the picture below above the isolator, photo taken with boot lining out), you really need a replacement but its a five pin relay not a regular four pin. However, in the circumstances, I would try a four pin relay from another circuit and give it a try, nothing to loose...

 

[CraigWaterman11]

+1 Chris, actually I had the reservoir in the trunk and all I had to do was pop the trunk, unscrew the lid, and look in, like it was any other normal fluid check. Then after completely changing the hydraulic pack from a Quattroporte I left it under the car so I'm back to being normal and doing as everyone else. Besides this you absolutely nailed the check for the pump. The fuse is 30 amp. In the USA it sits right above the battery, as well as the relay is in the same area. I actually use an 80 amp universal relay now in my car (It's clear and you can actually see through it to watch the contact points toggle) it's a four prong relay. I know it has a small five prong design but in the early model 4200's the fifth prong is not functioning for anything, they changed the style to of the relay in the GS which utilizes a wider leg of one of those prongs so you cannot use a universal relay, but the 4200 you can get a normal 30-40 amp four prong relay from any auto parts store and replace the relay. You will find that when you plug the four prong relay into the base that the base will hold the four prong relay, and has a universal base.

If you checked the fuse and relay(hopefully you have a spare relay to replace it because you really cannot see if it's toast or not without prying it apart), to be honest you will be getting a tow. Unless you have your trunk apart, or you jack the left part of your car up with a jack you will not be able to get to the pump itself. Also there is a sensor in the reservoir that will come up in the dash that reads (fluid low) if you have run out of hydraulic fluid, at least it does in my Spyder. If your pump has a flat spot hitting it with a hammer will move it enough to get it working again until it lands on that flat spot again, like what was stated an old fuel pump or starter.

Hope you get it worked out and all the information being offered is great. It's complete and comprehensive for getting you back up and running. If the pump is gone (very possible) you have a great group of guys to lead and help you there as well.

 

[mjheathcote]

Hi Craig,

With reference to the attached two photographs, if I undo the fasteners around the boot floor, it will lift out and expose the F1 pump and reservoir, and with regard to the F1 relay, the fifth little black wire is redundant in the wiring loom?
Thanks.

 

[CraigWaterman11]

Absolutely, if you take all of that out, you definitely will be good to go. Sorry I thought you were beside the road, I didn't know you had the tools with you to pull the liner, and bottom tray out. Additionally you will have to bend the heat shield out of the way by pushing it down. But yes you can get to the fluid reservoir and the pump this way. Use a long screw driver or socket extension put it on the F1 pump and slap it since you obviously won't have room to swing the hammer in there.
Yes the extra wire running from the base of the relay base is redundant. I think I discussed it in depth on ML a while back. The benefit we have over the GS is in the GS they are using a relay similar to the F cars where one of the prongs is really wide, so they cannot fit a universal relay. In our cars (4200's) a universal relay legs are perfect because our bases if you look at them when you unbolt it from the car are universal to. I have been running a universal 80 amp (I realize it's normally 30, but the 80 amp has a higher load capacity, and better durability factor because of it) for 2 years now.

 

[mjheathcote]

Absolutely, if you take all of that out, you definitely will be good to go. Sorry I thought you were beside the road,

I'm not but Karatemaserati is!

 

[karatemaserati]

Thanks so far guys,so good to know there are people who would be willing to come out aswell if they lived closer.

Iv got it out the contacts deff look a bit rough.

Re getting one from a diff cicuit is this defo ok? Just iv looked in the book and all the other relays have labels like mmini, maxi and micro. Which relay would be ok?

 

[karatemaserati]

Take it minimum is 30A?

 

[Parisien]

Not sure anyone else carries these...........need to be sure its correct amps and prongs etc


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