Exporting a car and tax..

[mchristyuk]

Gents,

Need some advice please as I can't find a satisfactory answer after several answers of Googling and the DVLA lines are "too busy, please call back later..".

Situation:

1) Chap in Germany wants to buy my Saab that I had for sale. His intention is to come over, pick it up and drive it to the ferry port and be on his merry way.
2) Currently the car is SORN.

What I know:
1) For registration purposes we both fill out the V5 and he takes the whole document. I write to the DVLA telling them a foreign national without a GB resident address has bought the car and I an no longer the keeper. I supply some evidence to back this up (copy of V5, signed receipt, etc..).
2) For a UK car to be driven on our roads it has to be insured, MOT'd and taxed.

Problem:
1) Car is SORN.
2) Car tax is not transferable to new owner.

How does he drive to the ferry without the plod (or more likely ANPR machines) taking an active interest?

Under the new tax rules I can't tax it as I'm not the owner. However can a (or does a) foreign national tax a UK car if they don't have a GB residents address?

In the old days with the transferable tax it wasn't a problem.. but now?.. I'm stumped and Google doesn't seem to have the answer!

My impression is that he should be able to tax it without a GB address and cancel it the next day and get a refund IF any money is taken. I say IF.. I have a friend who's bought the odd car or two and set up tax by direct debit, driven it home then cancelled the tax/direct debit.. as they never took a payment he never paid a penny for his 4 hours of car tax...

Cheers

Mark

 

[CatmanV2]

I rather doubt he can drive it legally on the roads. I shall read on with interest.

C

 

[mchristyuk]

I rather doubt he can drive it legally on the roads. I shall read on with interest.

C

Why do you think that? I've known several people sell to foreign nationals without issue and forums are full of advice for it and there seems to be no real issues.. apart from all the advice I can find pre-dates the new tax regulations that stops tax from being transferable.

Surely if it's MOT'd and insured he can drive it legally, that is.. so long as it has valid tax..

Cheers

Mark

 

[hilts uk]

Might be as cheap / easy to trailer it to the ferry?

 

[2b1ask1]

Do you know any car dealerships with trade plates you could borrow and accompany him to the port? Trade plates only provide road tax cover not insurance or MOT but it would work or trailer it to the port, the number plates can be taped over so the ANPR does not trigger it as untaxed.

A couple of options anyway.

 

[mchristyuk]

Do you know any car dealerships with trade plates you could borrow and accompany him to the port? Trade plates only provide road tax cover not insurance or MOT but it would work or trailer it to the port, the number plates can be taped over so the ANPR does not trigger it as untaxed.

A couple of options anyway.

As far as I know trade plates generally only cover a traders stock, so whilst you can probably "get away with it" it's not strictly legal and the trader could get in all kinds of bother... somebody I know who is a trader only found this out recently and naturally now keeps a tight grip on said plates...

Mark

 

[mchristyuk]

Ok.. dug this out from a Police forum. Insurance and MOT is not an issue..

Ladies & Gents

After being a traffic officer for the last 8 years and dealing with this situation a great number of times the position is very simple and that is as follows.

Forget who owns the vehicle, who is buying the vehicle etc as it is largely irrespective.

A UK Registered vehicle must be insured by a UK Insurance company for it to be legal to be used here in the UK. Note that is not a vehicle owned by a UK resident it is a vehicle that has a UK registration plate. Ownership is irrelevant.

This is stated in section 145 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

Since 2009 there is one exception to this and that is as follows,

UK Registered Vehicles - Foreign Insurance - Vehicles being exported

There is an exemption from the general position following the implementation of the 5th Motor Insurance Directive (now incorporated into the Codified Directive 2009/103/EC) into UK Law.

If a UK vehicle is being exported to another EEA state (the EEA comprises EU countries plus Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein), an insurer in that state can give cover on the vehicle for 30 days, to allow it to be taken to that state and re-registered there.

The risk is assumed by the insurer in the member state of destination of the vehicle being imported, who will ultimately be responsible for compensation in respect of any accidents occurring during the 30 day period.

.. but that still leaves me stuck in the same boat as to how he taxes it for the 1 hour drive to Dover OR whether he even has to being as the car is on a one way journey out of the country..

Mark

 

[drewf]

It's one of several loopholes in the new system of non-transferrable tax. The insurance is no problem, he can insure it himself. But there's no way he can actually tax it.

Put simply, he cannot legally drive it on the UK roads - it needs to be trailered to the port. However, the reality? There are hundreds of thousands of untaxed vehicles on the roads now under the new system; if I was him, I'd simply drive it to the port and take it out of the country. If stopped, a distinct lack of English language, waving a V5 and repetition of the words 'export' and 'ferry or tunnel' should see him on his way

 

[mchristyuk]

It's one of several loopholes in the new system of non-transferrable tax. The insurance is no problem, he can insure it himself. But there's no way he can actually tax it.

Put simply, he cannot legally drive it on the UK roads - it needs to be trailered to the port. However, the reality? There are hundreds of thousands of untaxed vehicles on the roads now under the new system; if I was him, I'd simply drive it to the port and take it out of the country. If stopped, a distinct lack of English language, waving a V5 and repetition of the words 'export' and 'ferry or tunnel' should see him on his way

Drewf,

I've gone to the website for tax and so long as you have the V5 document reference number you can tax it.. which he will have..

So will it reject his bank details because it's not a UK bank?

Cheers

Mark

 

[mchristyuk]

Just read this elsewhere on the tax front...

Owner based tax isn't a problem, I've taxed three vehicles in the last month (two for free!) you just go to the website, type in the numberplate, the V5 ref and your card details, no need to prove it's even your car, you can effectively gift tax to someone if you like. (And have a V5 number).

Mark

 

[drewf]

No, I'm sure it won't care about his bank. But, it won't see his (non-UK) insurance as being valid. If you have it insured, then it will probably work!

 

[drewf]

You're right about the owner-based tax point though. I tax all the cars here despite my name not being on all the V5 documents, as neither of the girls seem to have any concept of taxing or insuring vehicles.

 

[mchristyuk]

You're right about the owner-based tax point though. I tax all the cars here despite my name not being on all the V5 documents, as neither of the girls seem to have any concept of taxing or insuring vehicles.

I'm going to keep trying to get hold of the DVLA.. but I get the impression that whoever I speak to there won't have a clue either!

Why are so many simple jobs so bl**dy difficult in this day and age?!.. Argh...

Mark

 

[mchristyuk]

No, I'm sure it won't care about his bank. But, it won't see his (non-UK) insurance as being valid. If you have it insured, then it will probably work!

Drewf,

Does the website check insurance details? The DVLA website states:

At the Post Office

Go to your local Post Office that deals with vehicle tax. You’ll need payment for your vehicle tax and one of the following:

your vehicle tax reminder letter (V11)
a V5C registration certificate (log book) in your name
a new keeper supplement (V5C/2), if you’ve just bought the vehicle
You may also need:

your MOT test certificate (must be valid when the tax starts)
a valid reduced pollution certificate
In Northern Ireland you’ll also need an insurance certificate or cover note.

Which suggests you now only need insurance to get tax if you're in Northern Ireland?!

Baffling...

Mark

 

[drewf]

You are absolutely correct! There's no longer any check made by DVLA of the MID when taxing a vehicle... Astonishing, as it should be a minute cost to make a check (as in thousandths of a penny), but it has been deleted due to costs.

 

[mchristyuk]

You are absolutely correct! There's no longer any check made by DVLA of the MID when taxing a vehicle... Astonishing, as it should be a minute cost to make a check (as in thousandths of a penny), but it has been deleted due to costs.

Was just reading the public consultation on the change.. it appears that as insurance is checked in numerous other places it was redundant at the tax point and a lot of people were stuck each time taxing their car when the insurance database hadn't been updated.

Just another government IT project which is brain dead simple to set up efficiently but for some reason becomes hideously expensive and over complicated...!

So.. the plan of attack seems to be..

1) He comes with a suitcase of cash, or does an online bank transfer to me for the value of the car.
2) He also comes with insurance cover (though that's his problem not mine!)
3) He takes the V5, I send a letter to the DVLA with proof of sale that the vehicle has been exported.
4) I set up a DD monthly instalment for the tax on his behalf, then the next day I cancel it.
5) I regain space on my driveway. Hurrah.

Mark