CLOSED Brexit Poll

Do you want to leave the EU?

  • Yes - Leave the EU

    Votes: 85 55.9%

  • No - Stay in the EU

    Votes: 60 39.5%

  • Dont Know

    Votes: 7 4.6%
  • Total voters
    152
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RW3200

RW3200

Junior Member
Messages
295
greeny12 said:
Just outed myself as a Leaver on Facebook. Given that I reckon around 80% of my 'friends' are Inners this should be interesting!

If anyone is interested, here's what I had to say:

So yeah, I'm going to vote ‘leave' tomorrow. I'm going to do so because I believe passionately in democracy; government of the people, by the people, for the people. I do not believe in an anti-democratic institution that has ridden roughshod over popular plebiscites (the French and Danish Lisbon treaty referendums to name but two) and has happily turfed out democratically elected governments that it sees as threats to its wider ‘project'. Not forgetting one that willingly holds its boot to the throats of proud southern European nations, helping to foment right wing nationalism which in my view is a direct kick-back against its anti-democratic ethos.

I'm also going to do so because I believe in free markets and free trade, not protectionism. We are not some cowering little shithouse country, we are the world's fifth biggest economy and eight out of ten of our top global (i.e. non-EU) trading partners are not governed by any EU trade deals. This includes the country with which we have the healthiest trade balance, the United States. Our negative trade balance with the EU, on the other hand, is eye-watering. And as more than one economist has pointed out, you don't need a trade deal to trade, you just need to produce goods and services that people want at a price they are willing to pay. We've been quite good at that over the years.

Why I am NOT voting to leave is some sort of Little England, closed border, protectionist, anti-immigrant mentality. I will readily concede that some elements of the Brexit campaign have majored on this, which I deplore wholeheartedly. But don't ******* patronise and insult me with any more of the sort of one-eyed, holier-than-thou, mithering ******** that is increasingly polluting my FB timeline. There are two sides to every argument – that is, you know, what democracy is all about.

Rant over. Please feel free to ‘unfriend' as you see fit.
Click to expand...

Well said sir!
I couldn't agree more with every single point.
 
Contigo

Contigo

Sponsor
Messages
18,376
Top post Greeny and my sentiments too. Nothing to do with the immigration side but all about the democracy and being Britain again.
 
Contigo

Contigo

Sponsor
Messages
18,376
This is the real argument the Remain Campaign is up against - to answer the democratic deficit in the E.U without leaving it.
 
M

m1980k

Junior Member
Messages
467
People talk about democracy like it's something that can be precisely defined in black and white.

In the UK, we have an electoral system that gives power to parties that have only a minority of the vote. If the majority of people in the country vote against the Conservatives, then they can still win. And of course there's the house of Lords.

Elected governments from member states and elected members of the European parliament decide who the European commisioners will be.

What's democratic and what isn't?
 
Andyk

Andyk

Member
Messages
61,325
Thank **** this will be over tomorrow...I am sick and tired of the **** coming out of politicians mouths on both sides..........and that debate last night was a joke........
 
D

dem maser

Moderator
Messages
34,273
same Andy, i cant wait for it to be over, i have been switching sides for the last month...i now know what i want
 
QP4Me

QP4Me

New Member
Messages
439
I no longer import goods from the USA, due to import duties. I sincerely hope an exit doesn't cause similar problems with trade from the UK. Don't do it, you are far better being on the inside, than being punished by the EU, on the outside.
 
Wack61

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,809
For me the biggest problem of being in the EU is freedom of movement, I was walking through the centre of Warrington at the weekend when a group of young men numbering 10-12 walked towards me , aged 16-17 possibly 18 , what skills can they possibly have that Britain needs , the only gap they can fill is the gap created by all our 16-17-18 year olds being kept at school when some of them should be at work , not everyone is academic, some have hands on skills that need to be developed from 16 , builders,plumbers,etc , having a D in A level history isn't what they need it's 2 years of a 3 year apprenticeship completed.

We don't need a country full of foreign unskilled labour ,we already have plenty of unemployed British to fill that gap, we need to be able to fish in a global pond and choose who comes in based on their skills and what they can offer to this country , skilled labour creating wealth and paying tax.

It's nothing to do with racism , it's about what's best for the country , I really believe being out will be better even if it costs me money in the short term which is why I'm voting out in an hour
 
MrMickS

MrMickS

Member
Messages
3,962
Wack61 said:
For me the biggest problem of being in the EU is freedom of movement, I was walking through the centre of Warrington at the weekend when a group of young men numbering 10-12 walked towards me , aged 16-17 possibly 18 , what skills can they possibly have that Britain needs , the only gap they can fill is the gap created by all our 16-17-18 year olds being kept at school when some of them should be at work , not everyone is academic, some have hands on skills that need to be developed from 16 , builders,plumbers,etc , having a D in A level history isn't what they need it's 2 years of a 3 year apprenticeship completed.

We don't need a country full of foreign unskilled labour ,we already have plenty of unemployed British to fill that gap, we need to be able to fish in a global pond and choose who comes in based on their skills and what they can offer to this country , skilled labour creating wealth and paying tax.

It's nothing to do with racism , it's about what's best for the country , I really believe being out will be better even if it costs me money in the short term which is why I'm voting out in an hour
Click to expand...

I think this is a much bigger problem than the EU one and goes back to government education policy over the last 20 years. The whole emphasis on the academic over everything else has done our youth a disservice.

Most post leave scenarios involve access to the single market and this would likely involve freedom of movement.

The place freedom of movement would hit us is in low paid service industries and the NHS. When was the last time you visited a hotel, restaurant, or hospital and weren't served/treated by someone from the EU?

My ex-wife used to work in the hotel trade (she still might but I've no idea) anyway the numbers of British staff that started and left within a week or two because work was too hard she lost count of. Instead you got a Polish teacher cleaning rooms because to them it was a decent wage. A lot of the British staff could do as well on benefits and didn't want to put the effort in to climb the ladder.

On the other side I really like that I'm typing this whilst sitting in Cannes. I have a business meeting tomorrow lunchtime but am working over here today. I'd hate for that to change both personally and for my children. I'd like for them to have the ability to work in the EU without any restrictions.
 
Dan!

Dan!

Member
Messages
3,029
I'm sat in catalonia looking at pretty Russian women having breakfast in bikini tops. Frankly I'm all for the freedom of movement
 
daverichardson

daverichardson

Member
Messages
6,001
Wack61 said:
For me the biggest problem of being in the EU is freedom of movement, I was walking through the centre of Warrington at the weekend when a group of young men numbering 10-12 walked towards me , aged 16-17 possibly 18 , what skills can they possibly have that Britain needs , the only gap they can fill is the gap created by all our 16-17-18 year olds being kept at school when some of them should be at work , not everyone is academic, some have hands on skills that need to be developed from 16 , builders,plumbers,etc , having a D in A level history isn't what they need it's 2 years of a 3 year apprenticeship completed.

We don't need a country full of foreign unskilled labour ,we already have plenty of unemployed British to fill that gap, we need to be able to fish in a global pond and choose who comes in based on their skills and what they can offer to this country , skilled labour creating wealth and paying tax.

It's nothing to do with racism , it's about what's best for the country , I really believe being out will be better even if it costs me money in the short term which is why I'm voting out in an hour
Click to expand...

Agreed
We are where we are right now and it is no use blaming past governments failures, we need to address what we are faced with now
I will be going to the polling station about 9pm and putting my cross against the Leave.

I also think we should close this thread now - please
 
conaero

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,652
Well thats me done, bottom box ticked.

My prediction is still 55/45 in favour of staying although I hope I am wrong.

Looking to the positives, no mover campaigning on the telly, I am totally sick of it!
 
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