5 Year Old Daughter Horse Riding Incident Advice

hilts uk

Member
Messages
945
So sorry to hear this. We have a horse and a horse mad daughter who recently passed her BHS Stage 1 exam and wants to become an instructor. As many have said its expected that a small child should be in a very controlled environment and a lead rope used at all times. I have never seen a 5 year riding unaided at a riding school but probably some do if they have their own horse and have ridden from a younger age. Riding is dangerous and accidents do happen a lot - we have had to deal with many, but I feel that the riding school have been negligent by failing to supervise the lesson. Normally the instructor would have passed their British Horse Society or Association of British Riding School exams which will give guidance and rules on supervising novices. The school is probably affiliated to one of these organisations and it may also be an approved Pony Club Centre. These are not regulators as such but they will have their guidelines and schools are inspected and instructors have to be qualified before giving lessons. I don't believe these organisations are regulators as such so I suspect a complaint to them would not lead to any real action but I would look which organisation the stables is affiliated and contact them and ask them how they deal with complaints. On legal action I suspect your best bet is to contact a solicitor who will advise you. If you have a strong case then they should do this on a no win no fee basis. I really hope your daughter gets better and good luck.
 

BJL

Member
Messages
1,364
Sorry to hear of your daughters accident. We keep horses, too many but my wife and daughter have me over a barrel when comparing my toys. But the riding school had a duty of care in that;

1. The mount should have been chosen to suit the competence of the rider
2. The mount should have had no history of bucking or bolting if used to train minors, check this.
3. At all times the mount should be under the control of the trainer when a minor is in the saddle. This means either being lead by the halter or a short head collar lead, or a long reign. If none of the previous and the rider is allowed to trot but with close attendance it should have been proven prior to that occasion the rider was competent to trot whilst under supervision reign. If the rider is allowed to trot without close attendance and previously proving competence the school are in big trouble even more so if the mount has a history of bolting or bucking.

From what you told us the riding school better have a good insurance policy
 

EnzoMC

Member
Messages
1,999
like others I wish your daughter the very best and a fast recovery - I think its was a great thing you was there and you showed you can do your best by getting your daughter safely and quickly to the hospital.

kids do seem stronger than us adults at times, I saw a young girl fall down the stair, horried that she has broken something but within a few mins she was up and running around again - its amazing what ice cream / sweets can do


you also take care
 

Trev Latter

Member
Messages
1,213
I don't ride, but Toni does and she has had some experience with riding schools locally. One school in particular has horses for schooling that are so well adjusted to being schooled they pretty much do the whole routine without any guidance at all. As a result of that, they're perfect for youngsters and complete novices as their pretty much bomb proof. Another school has horses that are a little more "challenging" and would require a fair degree of experience. It all depends on the horses and rider's ability I guess. That said, I wouldn't have thought it responsible at all to allow a child that young to be in control on their own. It certainly didn't happen with my eldest when she was learning at a similar age. She always had someone with her on the end of a lead rope.

I hope your daughter makes a full and speedy recovery. I suspect the mind will take longer than the body to heal, but as already mentioned, kids are pretty resilient.
 

LDM 3200

Member
Messages
661
Hi, hope your daughter is ok and there are no further issues.
Accidents can and will always happen but things should be done to reduce the risks as much as possible.

Personally I would think a child of that sort of age should have a handler by there side at all times. My wife and I have had lessons and have also observed classes being taken.

The place we went to followed the same lines that Ewan mentioned, the instructor taught from the centre with individual handlers holding the reigns of each horse for the inexperienced and young children. Every now and then he would take over a handlers place to give specific instruction or maybe if going faster than walking pace.
 
Messages
6,001
Sad reading this thread. We all wish the best for our children and I certainly hope your daughter recovers
Do let us know
Good luck
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,184
I think we need to hold fire on a definitive course of action at this stage. It is too early to tell if any longer term injuries have been sustained or will arise. I just don't have that information at this stage to say if this is likely to be the case or not. It doesn't seem so at the moment but it would be prudent to leave our options open at this stage. It would also be all too easy to say OK she is fine, recovering well and find in a year or longer a significant/major issue discovered that causes long term issues and costs that could be substantial. It seems sensible to do this and seems irresponsible not to do so.

It could be financial suicide or ruinous if for whatever reason this became the case. I have no idea, just keen not to close doors that will not be able to be opened again at a later date. I hope and feel that this won't be the case but why close a door that either can't be closed at this stage or doesn't need to be closed at this stage.

There are some issues that clearly need and will be discussed. I do not like litigation and more specifically solicitors. Sorry if I am offending anyone here but my experiences at all stages of my life have never been good when taking any form of litigation using solicitors. It always ends up costing loads with little or no result. Lose lose for us/everyone else and win win for the solicitor. It is not high on my agenda list but is an option if ever required.

We have another follow up appt with a Harley Street Maxillofacial specialist again next week. The swelling should start to go down and the injuries can be easier and more fully assessed. I am keen not to jump to conclusions too earlier, keen not to be negative and blame anyone or everyone else and keen to protect my daughter regardless what anyone or everyone thinks about it. Your opinions and information really does matter and is appreciated.

I am in an industry where information is key to allow us to do our job and do it well. The more information I have the better and more informed decision I can make. I apply this logic in most that I do. Some might say boring, tedious, annoying, live a little etc. but I cannot change the way I was born and brought. I am quite a strong individual who cannot be swayed easily and pride myself on not being able to be 'bought'. I don't go against the grain on occasion just to be different but have no issue in doing anything that will be in a minority or unpopular if I feel it is the right thing to do.

I don't think it is good to react in the heat of the moment or make decisions when your judgement is clouded and imbalanced. That is what the last few days have been about for me. The ultimate and most responsible person at fault here is myself. I know this and am fully aware of this fact. I will not beat myself up about it or let it affect me and know how to deal with it. I have lived with myself for 43 years and know myself quite well know ;) I was not happy with something and choose not to do something about it immediately.

In my defence I was in a very foreign environment, know nothing or very little about horses or horse riding and didn't want to come across as interfering or a moaner without good reason. I really didn't know what was right or what was to be expected with the assistance level in the lesson. I have no benchmark or level at all to gauge this either in person or by written/read knowledge. All I know is that I felt uncomfortable and felt it didn't seem correct to me. Is that or was that good enough reason to cut in and get the lesson stopped for my daughter? I still have no idea! The lesson is 30 mins long and the incident happened about 20 mins in. There were 4 horses and girls in the class with one central teacher. It was my first visit to see my daughter riding and my sum total of life long experience is therefore about 30 mins. I am not sure that is enough to make a good solid informed decision. It was merely a gut feeling and would have been reactive. Sometimes this makes the best decision and sometimes the worse. I have to live with my decision and am man enough and responsible enough to do so.

I moan a great deal at home about all sorts. I often am told so and told I never smile. There a many bits of information that fill my head on all that I deal with every day. I am not one that seems to be allowed to have simple decision based on one or two pieces of information. My heads seems to become attracted and burdened with a ton of information fully, partly or with a small amount direct relation to what I am trying to think and decide about. It is all in the desire to make the very best decision at all times on everything. As you all know choosing cars is one of those complex tasks that takes some time. Others may be quick, reactive and make snap decisions. I am not one of those people! I can do this when the information I have is clear and find decision making very easy. I do it a great deal in my work. In this case I really wasn't sure what to make of it all and was still trying to gauge if I was being irrational and overbearing. I am still human, always learning but always prepared to do the work required to do the very best I can at all times. No matter what it is.

Nobody will agree about this in their totality as we know everyone is different. My concern is to make sure that if there any lessons to be learnt here, that they are, also if anything that is preventable is prevented.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
Very unfortunate accident. Life's so unfair when you get hurt doing something you enjoy. Hope she makes a full recovery in time and doesn't lose her love for horses.
CheersWattie
 

D Walker

Member
Messages
9,827
Sad news Dean, and like everyone else I send my best wishes.
You should be applauded on your approach which is well reasoned.
It's very easy to allow yourself to get overly charged when your nearest and dearest are involved.
All my best,
Dave
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,046
Very sad reading and I hope your daughter makes a speedy and full recovery.
I'm not into horses, but I learnt to ride with my younger sister when at junior school by a family friend who kept horses.
Later my sister in her teens had her own horse.
I can remember all the precautions my mum and dad took when buying her horse, recommended seller, independent assessment of temperament etc.
Unfortunately one day my sister had 'selena' tied up to a metal gate, and out of the blue she bolted, ripping off the metal gate from its mounting and dragging it into the middle of the field. No one was hurt but trust was lost and the horse returned to the seller.
Horses are powerful animals, so in my opinion, a 5 year old should never be left on a horse untethered from a handler.
 

iainw

Member
Messages
3,386
I think we need to hold fire on a definitive course of action at this stage. It is too early to tell if any longer term injuries have been sustained or will arise. I just don't have that information at this stage to say if this is likely to be the case or not. It doesn't seem so at the moment but it would be prudent to leave our options open at this stage. It would also be all too easy to say OK she is fine, recovering well and find in a year or longer a significant/major issue discovered that causes long term issues and costs that could be substantial. It seems sensible to do this and seems irresponsible not to do so.

It could be financial suicide or ruinous if for whatever reason this became the case. I have no idea, just keen not to close doors that will not be able to be opened again at a later date. I hope and feel that this won't be the case but why close a door that either can't be closed at this stage or doesn't need to be closed at this stage.

There are some issues that clearly need and will be discussed. I do not like litigation and more specifically solicitors. Sorry if I am offending anyone here but my experiences at all stages of my life have never been good when taking any form of litigation using solicitors. It always ends up costing loads with little or no result. Lose lose for us/everyone else and win win for the solicitor. It is not high on my agenda list but is an option if ever required.

We have another follow up appt with a Harley Street Maxillofacial specialist again next week. The swelling should start to go down and the injuries can be easier and more fully assessed. I am keen not to jump to conclusions too earlier, keen not to be negative and blame anyone or everyone else and keen to protect my daughter regardless what anyone or everyone thinks about it. Your opinions and information really does matter and is appreciated.

I am in an industry where information is key to allow us to do our job and do it well. The more information I have the better and more informed decision I can make. I apply this logic in most that I do. Some might say boring, tedious, annoying, live a little etc. but I cannot change the way I was born and brought. I am quite a strong individual who cannot be swayed easily and pride myself on not being able to be 'bought'. I don't go against the grain on occasion just to be different but have no issue in doing anything that will be in a minority or unpopular if I feel it is the right thing to do.

I don't think it is good to react in the heat of the moment or make decisions when your judgement is clouded and imbalanced. That is what the last few days have been about for me. The ultimate and most responsible person at fault here is myself. I know this and am fully aware of this fact. I will not beat myself up about it or let it affect me and know how to deal with it. I have lived with myself for 43 years and know myself quite well know ;) I was not happy with something and choose not to do something about it immediately.

In my defence I was in a very foreign environment, know nothing or very little about horses or horse riding and didn't want to come across as interfering or a moaner without good reason. I really didn't know what was right or what was to be expected with the assistance level in the lesson. I have no benchmark or level at all to gauge this either in person or by written/read knowledge. All I know is that I felt uncomfortable and felt it didn't seem correct to me. Is that or was that good enough reason to cut in and get the lesson stopped for my daughter? I still have no idea! The lesson is 30 mins long and the incident happened about 20 mins in. There were 4 horses and girls in the class with one central teacher. It was my first visit to see my daughter riding and my sum total of life long experience is therefore about 30 mins. I am not sure that is enough to make a good solid informed decision. It was merely a gut feeling and would have been reactive. Sometimes this makes the best decision and sometimes the worse. I have to live with my decision and am man enough and responsible enough to do so.

I moan a great deal at home about all sorts. I often am told so and told I never smile. There a many bits of information that fill my head on all that I deal with every day. I am not one that seems to be allowed to have simple decision based on one or two pieces of information. My heads seems to become attracted and burdened with a ton of information fully, partly or with a small amount direct relation to what I am trying to think and decide about. It is all in the desire to make the very best decision at all times on everything. As you all know choosing cars is one of those complex tasks that takes some time. Others may be quick, reactive and make snap decisions. I am not one of those people! I can do this when the information I have is clear and find decision making very easy. I do it a great deal in my work. In this case I really wasn't sure what to make of it all and was still trying to gauge if I was being irrational and overbearing. I am still human, always learning but always prepared to do the work required to do the very best I can at all times. No matter what it is.

Nobody will agree about this in their totality as we know everyone is different. My concern is to make sure that if there any lessons to be learnt here, that they are, also if anything that is preventable is prevented.

I am very sorry to hear about the injury to your daughter. I am a new father and I can't imagine how I would feel. I am not horsey, but I am an experienced Consultant Plastic Surgeon who has worked in the best places in the World.
You mentioned a Maxillo Facial Surgery Specialist. Was the majority of the associated injury to the facial skeleton or soft tissue (skin, mucosa etc). If there is a substantial soft tissue component - it may also be worth seeing a plastic surgeon. Although all surgeons vary - as a rule of thumb ; I would see a Maxillofacial Surgeon for Bony Injuries and a Plastic Surgeon for Soft tissue...
Happy to advise by PM if you prefer.

Best wishes
Iain
 

BJL

Member
Messages
1,364
Respect your point of view and best wishes to you and your daughter for a speedy recovery.

None the less, keep a chronographical record of all events from incident, where and when to all treatment and consultant comments and subsequent procedures. It will be invaluable should you at some stage in the future wish to pursue for damages which could significant.

Negligence effecting others is unforgivable. You were not in anyway culpable given your level of experience.
 

redsonnylee

Member
Messages
1,550
Really sorry to hear about your daughters accident, one of my sons is a goalie and the younger one competes in Fencing so we have had a few scrapes and chipped teeth to deal with over the years

Its especially hard when you are there, but also good that you can be on hand.

When your wife signed up there would have been some documents on their insurance, rules and general guidelines, so have a look at these to help with the next steps.

Wishing your daughter a speedy recovery.
 

Team GCR

Member
Messages
1,152
Very sorry to hear about your daughter, as has been said kids are tough so hopefully she will recover quickly.

I think it is very important to keep accurate records of what has happened and what happens especially medically as her treatment progresses.

I am very anti the ambulance chasing mentality that we have sadly copied from the USA however there are always genuine cases where compensation is deserved.

It is I imagine possible if your daughters head was accidentally kicked by the house and/or as part of her fall she may have suffered bruising to her back and possibly a form of whiplash. The hidden damage of these injuries can and often does remain hidden long after the bruising and pain of the accident are long forgotten. People then often have a back or neck problem many years later which they attribute to, for example, picking up a heavy object whereas in fact the root cause goes back to an old injury.

We once had a patient in his late twenties who swore blind that he had never had an accident of any sort and the consultant (my father) insisted he was mistaken and must have forgotten something in the distant past. On one of this patient's visits his mother met him at the practice as they had arranged to go out to lunch together and as goodbyes were being said after treatment the patient and my father were having a bit of banter over whether or not he had had an injury in the past, hearing this the patients mother spoke up and admitted to her son that she had accidentally dropped him on his head as a baby!

So it is important to keep a record now of what has happened, treatment that follows etc and when your daughter is older give her the file as it may be that the information will be useful to her in the future.

Also please remember that a "Harley Street" address is no longer a guarantee of a good doctor. The majority of the "Medical Mile" is owned by the Howard de Walden Estate and they do police doctors who want to practice there. To practice there you have to get a licence to practice from the estate and they specified where on the estate was allowed to be used for medical practice. However these days it isn't quite what it was so best to get a recommendation rather than just assuming because a doctor has a Harley Street practice they are the best.

If at any point you would like a recommendation feel free to PM me, been out of the medical business for 5 or 6 years now so can't guarantee some will not have retired but the other doctors we worked with were always the best we knew of at the time. My father was anaesthetist to both Archie McIndoe and Rainsford Mowlam (whom he rated more highly) so was especially knowledgable on the difference between a good and a bad plastic surgeon!
 

Felonious Crud

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
21,287
Very sorry to hear that. I hope she makes a full, fast and comfortable recovery.

Like many others, I don't like lazy ambulance chasing compensation-entitlement culture, but this sounds on the face of it like there is a case to answer. Regardless of what you or your wife signed at the riding school they cannot limit their liabilities for death or serious injury. I'd be amazed if there wasn't a case to answer, not just for injury but also for the emotional trauma. You may find you have a claim against the landowner as well. I'd go and find a decent solicitor. I'm sure you could find a good one that would take this on on a no-win, no-fee basis.

Incidentally, take lots of photographs and keep taking them as she recovers. It's important to record the progression of the injury.

Wish her all the best from the forum, and tell her the best mode of transport does not have four legs, a bad temper and a frothy mouth. It has four wheels and a trident. It's a good lesson for her to learn early.
 

TridentTested

Member
Messages
1,819
As the father of a 7 yo daughter I can fully sympathise with your plight. What a horrible experience to be living through. I never liked horses anyway!

I can only wish her and your family a full recovery.

It's gratifying to see experts stepping forward to offer their good advice - the power of the forum lives.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,184
Thanks all. She is doing OK at the moment thanks and every day she is moving forward. We have another appt. on Tues to see a specialist we saw this week. Amazing how you can see the healing process marching in each day with a 5 year old. Long way to go but the initial signs are very good.

Definitely need to get them out in the Maser more! They both love go out in the cars my son more so. They both sat in the drivers seat in the E55 and gave the pedal a few blips and enjoyed it!
 

espresso

New Member
Messages
14
Very sorry to hear that, as a father with a young dauther I understand how you feel. I wish your daughter the very best and a fast and full recovery.

Best wishes

Rasoul