3200 strange hot shutdown/start problem

[CatmanV2]

Not the same as the 4200?

C

 

[jluis]

Physically looks the same but I don’t know the resistance value.
There’s tons of these resistors that look the same physically but I don’t know their resistance or power rating.

The 3200 is 0.27 ohm and that’s the same as this Alfa part (51736821):

Cooling Fan Resistor Alfa Romeo 147 156 GTV Spider 159 Brera 51736821

SKU: 51736821This is a genuine Alfa Romeo cooling fan resistor to fit certain versions of the following: Alfa Romeo 916 GTV Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Alfa Romeo 159 Alfa Romeo Brera Alfa Romeo 939 Spider Alfa Romeo 156 Alfa Romeo 147 Alfa Romeo 145 Alfa Romeo 146 Alfa Romeo GT This is the 0.23...

alfaromeoshop.com

 

[CatmanV2]

Physically looks the same but I don’t know the resistance value.
There’s tons of these resistors that look the same physically but I don’t know their resistance or power rating.

The 3200 is 0.27 ohm and that’s the same as this Alfa part (51736821):

Cooling Fan Resistor Alfa Romeo 147 156 GTV Spider 159 Brera 51736821

SKU: 51736821This is a genuine Alfa Romeo cooling fan resistor to fit certain versions of the following: Alfa Romeo 916 GTV Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Alfa Romeo 159 Alfa Romeo Brera Alfa Romeo 939 Spider Alfa Romeo 156 Alfa Romeo 147 Alfa Romeo 145 Alfa Romeo 146 Alfa Romeo GT This is the 0.23...

alfaromeoshop.com

Same as the 4200 then

C

 

[Wally]

in many cases, the resistance can be read on the orange-coloured base. Check if this is the case, then you know which type you need.

 

[jluis]

I installed a jumper wire while waiting for the resistor to arrive and still have the same problem.
Fan kicks in at 90C as expected but if I shutdown the engine and attempt to restart while the fan is on, it simply refuses to start.

I’m running out of ideas here to rule out the ECU …

 

[Potakas]

Can I ask something, if we switch off the engine and remove the key while the ventilator is on, does the ventilator stops or keeps going?

 

[jluis]

Can I ask something, if we switch off the engine and remove the key while the ventilator is on, does the ventilator stops or keeps going?

Keeps going for 1 or 2 minutes. It’s during this timeframe that I cannot start the engine

 

[allandwf]

I don't think it's meant to start if the fans running, but why is it running? I've heard of a maf issue causing the fan to run before.

 

[jluis]

I don't think it's meant to start if the fans running, but why is it running? I've heard of a maf issue causing the fan to run before.

It’s normal to start the fan once it hits 90 degrees. And it starts at 90 degrees on the dot (I’m monitoring via OBD). If it cools to 85, the fan stops and I can stop the car and restart without problems.
The condition seems to be, if the fan is active (even if I pull the relay to prevent them for actually starting) then the engine will not restart again until it has stopped

 

[Oneball]

Are the fan relay and ignition relay on the same board?

 

[jluis]

Are the fan relay and ignition relay on the same board?

No, the ignition relay is on the front right side, half way in the hood and the fan relays are in the fuse box by the firewall.
I had thought of some chaffed wire on the relay circuit but they are far apart.

Next step is to hook the oscilloscope to the crankshaft sensor because when the ecu doesn’t detect movement on the crankshaft sensor it will not enable the ignition relay so that could be related, although the crank sensor is new there might be something wrong with the ECU circuit responsible for reading the crank sensor

Still, I owe you a pint for pointing out the resistor. Hard start issue is still there but the AC seems to blow cooler now

 

[Oneball]

Glad something is better!

 

[Lozzer]

It’s normal to start the fan once it hits 90 degrees. And it starts at 90 degrees on the dot (I’m monitoring via OBD). If it cools to 85, the fan stops and I can stop the car and restart without problems.
The condition seems to be, if the fan is active (even if I pull the relay to prevent them for actually starting) then the engine will not restart again until it has stopped

I had these symptoms, once was the starter motor dying, and once was as simple as replacing the battery with a higher cca one, both times it would start when hot with a battery booster attached, its as if the fans and starter were sapping the ignition system of the power it needed to function properly, as we know low voltages can do strange things to a Maserati.

 

[williamsmix]

I installed a jumper wire while waiting for the resistor to arrive and still have the same problem.
Fan kicks in at 90C as expected but if I shutdown the engine and attempt to restart while the fan is on, it simply refuses to start.

I’m running out of ideas here to rule out the ECU …

I had this problem with my 3200 when I checked it into Emblem; it wouldn't start when the fans were running, so I'd have to wait for them to stop before the car could be started. I though it was just a feature of the operating system in the ECU but they diagnosed a problem with the air gap at the crankshaft sensor which they replaced and adjusted to specification.

 

[davy83]

Keeps going for 1 or 2 minutes. It’s during this timeframe that I cannot start the engine

i reckon my car is also a bit like this. it does not like starting up when the fans are still running.

 

[williamsmix]

i reckon my car is also a bit like this. it does not like starting up when the fans are still running.

Check the air gap at the crankshaft sensor. I think Emblem had to modify the holder to get mine right. Also, the sensor cable gets quite brittle due to the heat coming off the engine. It’s not a particularly expensive item to replace.

 

[allandwf]

I'm assuming we turn the ignition on, then wait for all the checks, lights, and beeps to stop , before starting? Seems obvious but best check.

 

[jluis]

Already replaced the crankshaft sensor but did not adjust the air gap. Is the gap distance documented in the manual?

 

[williamsmix]

Already replaced the crankshaft sensor but did not adjust the air gap. Is the gap distance documented in the manual?

I've had a quick look in the manual and I can't find anything about the crankshaft sensor, but that doesn't mean it's not in there as it's not the easiest manual to find your way through! What I can tell you is that Emblem did not need the spacer (part 4 on the parts diagram) as the gap was too great with that and then they had to grind something down to get the correct gap.

 

[jluis]

I've had a quick look in the manual and I can't find anything about the crankshaft sensor, but that doesn't mean it's not in there as it's not the easiest manual to find your way through! What I can tell you is that Emblem did not need the spacer (part 4 on the parts diagram) as the gap was too great with that and then they had to grind something down to get the correct gap.

Mine has 2 thin spacers stacked. Maybe I remove them and check …