Welding hazards & HSE

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,220
I'm sure any of you involved with welding are going through the massive campaign by the HSE ongoing regarding the latest information about mild steel being added to the list of materials discovered to produce carcinogenic fumes when welded. It seems they are also adding into that grinding as well!!!

In my industry around 10 years ago we had a similar reaction from them about CCA treated timbers when burned leading to a ban of all CCA treatment and now we have rotting timber structures collapsing as a result.

Anyway, back to welding:

It has long been established that welding galvanised or metals with zinc content is not good for you, shield gasses from arc welding can lead to pneumonia and various other metals like stainless can create fumes that are known carcinogens. Recent research however has confirmed this to be the case from mild steel too however as no quantitative exposure is established the HSE have taken it as 0 exposure rather like the CCA treatment previously.

I contract to many local authorities and know that the first of them will be emailing tomorrow with a statement of requirements to be met before I can undertake any 'hot works' for them. That is it, no lead time or prep time, just a blanket stop! I know that they have 3 x welding sets at various depot they occasionally have to use and they will be got rid of now.

Almost all of the welding/grinding I do is outdoors but it seems I will need to spend the thick part of £1k on a new welding mask/forced air respirator setup to be able to complete my current workload.

Is anyone in the business of supplying such kit that can arrange a group buy or deal?

Oh and I'm also going to need to get some welding screens to fill the van a bit more too!

It is getting harder to make an honest crust innit?
 

Lozzer

Member
Messages
2,280
Yep, it's crept into our place as well, they're a bit late to the party though don't ya think? I smell a money making excercise here.....
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,113
Been welding all my life and it ain't killed me yet along with all the other nasty stuffs we work with.
Bought my mig welder back from NZ to France along with all my other gear.
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
Yes, however I have seen this coming for years, it's xmas for the welding suppliers presently!
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,101
Having a vested interest in h&s, I can't see a problem. Rather than weld a repair why not replace the part?
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
Having a vested interest in h&s, I can't see a problem. Rather than weld a repair why not replace the part?

Welding isn't just repairing, it is fabricating new in the first place!
We have dozens of welders working on customers sites fabricating and installing, all hand TIG welding, mostly stainless steel.
It can't all be made in a nice factory by robots!
 
Last edited:

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
Been welding and fab since the early 70's gas ,electric, tig whatever...
Eyesight has been the main criteria for me,useing the best shielding techniques and stuff

Waiting for the bus on a busy high street puts you in more risk pollution wise than a couple of hours welding..

Wimps!

Dave
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
It is the guys doing it day in day out.
On site, they don't want to do it in the open, because of the weather, either temperature, wind, or rain.
They therefore end up doing it in site steel containers (converted shipping containers the norm)...and keep the doors closed to keep warm...
Like I said, it has been coming for years, and rightly so in my view.
I just wonder that now, it will open the gates for health claims, especially those that have worked for years, decades, in poorly ventilated areas with inadequate air quality when the safety equipment has always been available, but not always made available/at all by the employer, until now.
 

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
Your too right Mike, we all knew about the issues of welding zinc and galvanized metals back in the 70's
50 years later, there's not too many of us left anyway!

Dave
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,101
I don't weld but soldered a lot in my youth nd always ensured that I had good ventilation during the process with lead fumes.

I'd rather be a wimp being able to enjoy later life than having respiratory problems and an oxygen bottle to lug around. It's your choice
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,167
I agree to be safe and cautious where possible. However I suspect a shopping trip down Oxford Street would be more hazardous to your health than a similar time spent welding in you garage or garden.

I agree full time occupation hardened welders should have good ventilation but I'm not sure this should be law. I think the research should be done and advice clearly and publicly offered. If you chose to ignore this and do it your way then as long as it is not affecting others who haven't been given a choice then I don't see a problem really.

They know smoking kills and must be considerably worse than welding but haven't made it illegal or forced certain conditions on how you smoke.

Smoking has been banned in some public places which is good and understandable to protect others. It has not been made illegal or additional costs or red tape added to smokers other than direct additional duty...tax...on the product.

This sounds as though it is going to be forced on to welders as a tax if you like and another cost they need to burden. All it will do is to push prices up or reduce the amount of skilled welders we have in this country or reduce the atractiveness to do it. That then indirectly reduces the numbers of skilled welders we have.

Is it a larger global environmental issue and causing global emmisions to rise? Or just more localised and just harmful directly to the welder?
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,220
The problem with that is that people are not employed to smoke.

C

This in a nutshell ^^^

It is more aggro for me as Insurance is going to sky rocket especially as a one man band! I renew in the next two weeks and know I’m going to be clobbered.
 

lifes2short

Member
Messages
5,821
elf and safety, what's that;), also been welding on and off since mid 70's, mainly mig, when you're young and reckless you simply don't think about your health I know I didn't, it's only now in my mid 50's that you start thinking back and whether you have effected your health in some way, I have done some stupid things luckily the only thing I got many moons ago was arc eye, feels like you have grit in your eyes, right biatch, last year I did build/weld a stainless exhaust system indoors no ventilation and only later found out the stainless fumes are not good :frusty6:
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,167
The problem with that is that people are not employed to smoke.

C
I don't follow?

I'm suggesting adding additional red tape, cost burdens and regulation to welders is a bad thing for them and aren't supporting it. It should be optional and not forced.

I merely stated that smoking is optional and worse for you so surely additional welding regulation should at the very worst be optional and certainly not forced.

Did I miss something or state my case poorly?
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,539
I don't follow?

If your job is to smoke, then you are, to a greater or lesser extent, forced into a situation of greater or lesser danger by your employer's desire to protect you. This is rather my understanding of the whole point of the H+S legislation.

C
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,167
I think it may be OK for larger organisations but as a small business ourself I guess my angle was more towards one man bands and micro/small businesses.

All it is going to do is put more pressure on small businesses who are already under great pressure already is it not?

In my experience some of the bigger businesses I've worked with have far bigger issues than smaller businesses with regards to adhering to H&S and other similar regulation. There are many infringements I see regularly even now. We attend and work on construction sites fairly regularly. It is much much better than when I attended sites 35 or even 40 years ago with my dad. However it still falls well short of what the regulations are there to regulate.

Intent and actual delivery often seem to be very far apart.