Vinyl - back but it never really went away

[zagatoes30]

I know we have a What You Listening too thread but this is a bit more specific.

Earlier this year whilst clearing storage boxes that cam over with our move 2 years ago I came across my vinyl collection, well one thing led to another and before long a Rega Planer 6 arrived and since then I have been listening to little else. Anyone else realised that despite all the ever changing ways of listening to music the joy of a vinyl LP takes some beating, from the artwork on the sleeve to the whole process of gently getting the record out and out it on the turntable, to the warm sound that comes out.

All sorts of music in the collection and lots of new and new / old stuff purchased over the last 6 months and yesterday my daughter (14) bought her first vinyl LP - OK it was only Ed Sheeran but she loved all the theatre that goes with playing it and even commented that it was better than Spotify.

 

[mjheathcote]

I'm sure someone can explain, but old stuff recorded to analogue vinyl was analogue recorded originally.
If new stuff recorded in digital (I assume!) is transfered to analogue vinyl, will it be better or worse sounding than a traditional analogue to analogue?

 

[Zep]

Totally agree. I have a Technics deck with a nice tone arm and cartridge and while I like the convenience of compressed music in the car, I infinitely prefer to listen to vinyl, it has a relaxing property to it.

 

[Zep]

I'm sure someone can explain, but old stuff recorded to analogue vinyl was analogue recorded originally.
If new stuff recorded in digital (I assume!) is transfered to analogue vinyl, will it be better or worse sounding than a traditional analogue to analogue?

I think that the idea is that modern digital recordings have a very, very high bit rate. But to distribute those digital recordings they have to be compressed, removing the detail. Transferring them to vinyl allows that detail to remain as it is a mechanical impression of the high quality original. I suppose you could say it has very high data density.

 

[midlifecrisis]

I'm sure someone can explain, but old stuff recorded to analogue vinyl was analogue recorded originally.
If new stuff recorded in digital (I assume!) is transfered to analogue vinyl, will it be better or worse sounding than a traditional analogue to analogue?

It all depends on the quality of the analogue to digital conversion and then the data compression used to store it.

 

[Andyk]

I can’t stand this download culture …And yes convenient etc for the car but I love getting an LP out with the covers etc and even a CD. Feels like you are getting something for your money ….. Yes I know I’m talking like an old fool but there was always something exciting about going to record shop and picking up the latest LP by your fav band taking in the cover and LP notes etc….This download business has not improved any aspect of buying music…

 

[midlifecrisis]

I can’t stand this download culture …And yes convenient etc for the car but I love getting an LP out with the covers etc and even a CD. Feels like you are getting something for your money ….. Yes I know I’m talking like an old fool but there was always something exciting about going to record shop and picking up the latest LP by your fav band taking in the cover and LP notes etc….This download business has not improved any aspect of buying music…

Nowadays, people do not download a specific album but just stream a mix of music. Truly disposable.

 

[Andyk]

Nowadays, people do not download a specific album but just stream a mix of music. Truly disposable.

Download - Stream….I can hear you buddy but don’t understand

 

[Zep]

I can’t stand this download culture …And yes convenient etc for the car but I love getting an LP out with the covers etc and even a CD. Feels like you are getting something for your money ….. Yes I know I’m talking like an old fool but there was always something exciting about going to record shop and picking up the latest LP by your fav band taking in the cover and LP notes etc….This download business has not improved any aspect of buying music…

For me it has its place, I can’t change it so I won’t fight it.

I know what you mean about the record shop, Spin-a-disc was the place to go on a Saturday back in the day. Hours spent browsing and listening. There is a video on YouTube of a Saturday in the 90s at Spin-a-disc. All awkward teenagers and vintage clothes!

 

[Andyk]

For me it has its place, I can’t change it so I won’t fight it.

I know what you mean about the record shop, Spin-a-disc was the place to go on a Saturday back in the day. Hours spent browsing and listening. There is a video on YouTube of a Saturday in the 90s at Spin-a-disc. All awkward teenagers and vintage clothes!

No I do agree…I also am not fighting it….just don’t use it…I still have around 12 CD’s in the car glove box

 

[Zep]

No I do agree…I also am not fighting it….just don’t use it…I still have around 12 CD’s in the car glove box

I found a pile of old tapes the other day, some home made. Gave them to a mate who has had to reinforce his floor to hold his vinyl collection. He tells me one has a track that you can’t buy or stream anywhere on it.

Would have been listening to those while blatting around in my Alfasud. That tape deck had auto reverse and track fast forward, cutting edge!

 

[FIFTY]

Bit too young for vinyl I fall into the cassette and compact disc generation - oh there was minidisc for a while too... None of these formats I wish to return

I can understand the fascination around vinyl, maybe a lot of it is the ritual and collector aspects of it... The analogue vs digital debate is a bit like Super unleaded vs regular unleaded, it can go on forever (hides behind sofa)

 

[mjheathcote]

I think that the idea is that modern digital recordings have a very, very high bit rate. But to distribute those digital recordings they have to be compressed, removing the detail. Transferring them to vinyl allows that detail to remain as it is a mechanical impression of the high quality original. I suppose you could say it has very high data density.

What actually is the data density of a record out of interest?

 

[Corranga]

Perhaps it’s being a bit younger than a lot on here, but, I really don’t get it.
The covers are lovely, in fact I have some displayed on my wall, the theatre… not so much. Its outweighed, for the majority by the downsides, scratches, dust, static..

The quality element, I also don’t really get. I can’t really tell the difference between vinyl and CD, and as it returned as some sort of hipster fad, so many people are listening on 50 quid portable deck rubbish from their local urban outfitters or something. There are even companies now that will press you your own custom vinyl, from mp3 you send in! /facepalm

As for downloads, there is always Ogg Vorbis or Flac or other non lossy format that is more convenient, portable and arguably as good quality.

Personally, though, CD is still my chosen format, though I probably consume by streaming due to convenience (with a selection of Amazon Echo’s in the house, the quality of the speaker wouldn’t warrant better). I still buy CDs, I like listening as intended (albums, in order, not ‘the best of’) but I think the reality is that most use music as a background media, rarely sitting down to just listen.

 

[Zep]

What actually is the data density of a record out of interest?

I don’t think it is a fixed number. Some new re-releases of vinyl have some poor quality pressings which sound really bad in places other, old pressings sound really nice.

The masters are made using a needle which transfers the sound waves into a groove and that is then plated to make it robust enough. Then it is pressed into a bit of molten plastic (usually made from old Vanilla Ice 12” I believe) and providing all of these steps are done well, it should sound exactly like the original.

Then you get into the realm of the ability of a record player to reproduce the sound in the record, which is why decks, tone arms cartridges, power supplies, amps, speaker cables and speakers get talked about a lot by people who like that sort of thing.

So the journey between the recording and your ear is affected by so much more than just the recording but the sound, when right, is much more layered and rich (undefined terms there I know).

You either get it, or you don’t. There is no judgement in either.

 

[Ewan]

On a related topic, I have a period Kenwood radio cassette player in my F400i. If anyone has a few old cassettes kicking around that they no longer want, let me know what you have as I could with a few more.
As for vinyl, mine’s all in the attic. I’ve given my Mitchell turntable to a friend on a long term loan as it was in its box not being used, so better he had than me.
Oh, he’s thinking of selling his low mileage, manual, blue 3200 GT if anyone’s looking.

 

[hashluck]

What actually is the data density of a record out of interest?

I am not sure that is the question you meant to ask - the answer to which would depend on whether 7" or 12", 33.33 or 45rpm.

The resolution equivalent is difficult to answer (in much the same way as analogue film (photo or moving pictures vs digital), analogue is virtually infinite but limited by the medium or means to reproduce it. Digital media is translated and stored as code. Analogue is not, but is basically stored the same as it actually is. Vinyl is etched sound waves which requires a complex set up of stylus, cartridge, arm and turntable to reproduce. It can be really, really good but can also sound awful in the wrong hands on the wrong equipment.

'Streaming' nowadays can mean many things, from low quality lossy mp3 (awful) up to studio master quality 24-bit/192kHz (which still requires A-D and subsequent D-A conversion to get from voice/instrument to our ears but will be free from many other vagaries of storage and reproduction and can sound fantastic).

Here is my best analogy for coffee lovers:

Nespresso = really convenient, not really great but does the job on the move = the coffee equivalent of lower quality streaming

Bean to Cup = convenient, tastes bloody good if the machine is good and the beans fresh = the coffee equivalent of higher quality streaming

Espresso Machine and Coffee Grinder = capable of superlative results but a bit of a faff, you have to grind the beans, tamp the grounds, get water perfect temperature and results can be mixed depending on humidity, temperature and all kinds of other variables = the coffee equivalent of playing a record

 

[hashluck]

I don’t think it is a fixed number. Some new re-releases of vinyl have some poor quality pressings which sound really bad in places other, old pressings sound really nice.

The masters are made using a needle which transfers the sound waves into a groove and that is then plated to make it robust enough. Then it is pressed into a bit of molten plastic (usually made from old Vanilla Ice 12” I believe) and providing all of these steps are done well, it should sound exactly like the original.

Then you get into the realm of the ability of a record player to reproduce the sound in the record, which is why decks, tone arms cartridges, power supplies, amps, speaker cables and speakers get talked about a lot by people who like that sort of thing.

So the journey between the recording and your ear is affected by so much more than just the recording but the sound, when right, is much more layered and rich (undefined terms there I know).

You either get it, or you don’t. There is no judgement in either.

Snap lol

 

[Zep]

On a related topic, I have a period Kenwood radio cassette player in my F400i. If anyone has a few old cassettes kicking around that they no longer want, let me know what you have as I could with a few more.
As for vinyl, mine’s all in the attic. I’ve given my Mitchell turntable to a friend on a long term loan as it was in its box not being used, so better he had than me.
Oh, he’s thinking of selling his low mileage, manual, blue 3200 GT if anyone’s looking.

Too late, my tapes went. Etsy is a good place to try. You can buy 50 for £2.50!

 

[Zep]

I am not sure that is the question you meant to ask - the answer to which would depend on whether 7" or 12", 33.33 or 45rpm.

The resolution equivalent is difficult to answer (in much the same way as analogue film (photo or moving pictures vs digital), analogue is virtually infinite but limited by the medium or means to reproduce it. Digital media is translated and stored as code. Analogue is not, but is basically stored the same as it actually is. Vinyl is etched sound waves which requires a complex set up of stylus, cartridge, arm and turntable to reproduce. It can be really, really good but can also sound awful in the wrong hands on the wrong equipment.

'Streaming' nowadays can mean many things, from low quality lossy mp3 (awful) up to studio master quality 24-bit/192kHz (which still requires A-D and subsequent D-A conversion to get from voice/instrument to our ears but will be free from many other vagaries of storage and reproduction and can sound fantastic).

Here is my best analogy for coffee lovers:

Nespresso = really convenient, not really great but does the job on the move = the coffee equivalent of lower quality streaming

Bean to Cup = convenient, tastes bloody good if the machine is good and the beans fresh = the coffee equivalent of higher quality streaming

Espresso Machine and Coffee Grinder = capable of superlative results but a bit of a faff, you have to grind the beans, tamp the grounds, get water perfect temperature and results can be mixed depending on humidity, temperature and all kinds of other variables = the coffee equivalent of playing a record

Now I want a coffee!