Starter motor problems

[Cox]

Hi,

Just went to start my Maser 3200 after being garaged up over the winter on my ctek trickle charger.

Usually when a car has been sat for a while, I whip out the fuel relays and turn it over until the oil pressure light goes out, then pop the relays back in and start it to make sure the oil has circulated round the engine rather than giving it a hard start.

Tried it on the Maser and as the oil pressure was building up after about 20 seconds the starter slowed down and now it isn't working at all.

Checked the battery (I only fitted it last year) and it is measuring 12.8 volts not started (because I can't start the car). Only fitted it last year (Bosch Silver 5 year warranty one).

I charged the battery again last night with my ctek. Gave it another try, but there is just a click when I turn the ignition and that is it, nothing.

Have I killed the starter or is there a fuse I might have blown during the process? I am assuming it is a dead starter, but just want to check before I fork out £200 for a refurb, only to find it could just be a fuse or something.

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Scaf]

I am no mechanic but if it’s clicking then I doubt it’s a fuse or relay. It’s either a dodgy solinoid or most likely battery related.
Personally I would hook the car up with a decent set of jump leads and eliminate a battery problem before I did anything else.
Check all battery connects first though -

 

[Cox]

I had a look online and a single click (it doesn’t keep clicking when I try to start it) is most likely the starter, as if it was the battery it would keep clicking apprently. Although I am sure I saw in another recent post the Bosch S5 might not be right battery for the car? It was the one recommended by ECP...

 

[Saigon]

Hi,

Just went to start my Maser 3200 after being garaged up over the winter on my ctek trickle charger.

Usually when a car has been sat for a while, I whip out the fuel relays and turn it over until the oil pressure light goes out, then pop the relays back in and start it to make sure the oil has circulated round the engine rather than giving it a hard start.

Tried it on the Maser and as the oil pressure was building up after about 20 seconds the starter slowed down and now it isn't working at all.

Checked the battery (I only fitted it last year) and it is measuring 12.8 volts not started (because I can't start the car). Only fitted it last year (Bosch Silver 5 year warranty one).

I charged the battery again last night with my ctek. Gave it another try, but there is just a click when I turn the ignition and that is it, nothing.

Have I killed the starter or is there a fuse I might have blown during the process? I am assuming it is a dead starter, but just want to check before I fork out £200 for a refurb, only to find it could just be a fuse or something.

Cheers,

Dave.

The click you hear is the solenoid pulling in, but that takes little current so an almost dead battery will energise that. The problem sounds like the solenoid is activating but insufficient current from your battery to turn the engine over (via the solenoid ) Your battery would appear to be knackered. Try another battery, or try and jump start it.

 

[CatmanV2]

I'd be betting on a flat battery. A slightly less flat battery would give the repeated clicking you mention. Combined with the starter turning slower and slower....

C

 

[Lozzer]

Try starting it with the headlights on.

 

[alfatwo]

You know what, I recon these battery conditioner aren't the full ticket..
We had this conversation this afternoon after looking at my 200 quid 5 year old Exide battery that had failed for no reason
In normal use batteries get discharged and recharged on a regular basis every week, for example the original battery on my Fiat 500 is 10 years old an still works fine

But on a car that doesn't get used very often this doesn't happen, then you stick a conditioner thingy on it, ok it keeps it charged but it cant discharge it quickly on a regular basis leading to sulphating of the plates

What do you recon

Dave

 

[MRichards]

Defiinitely a knackered battery that won't hold the charge. You could try the de-sulphating option on the better Ctek chargers,it may rescue the battery. If you can remove the acid filler caps from the battery,check that the acid level is up to the mark,if not top it up with distilled water or your tap water if that is good quality. Does it have a coloured charge indicator showing green ?
A jump starter is your friend.

 

[Rex B]

Starter motors are a known problem on the 3200 and if it has not been changed before my money would be on the starter.

Rex B

 

[alfatwo]

No, I'd go for a battery fault Rex..

The early 3200 starter motors used to suffer from the adhesive fixing the armature's to the casing failing due to the heat and then coming loose and jamming the rotor
On the later Fiat/Peugeot units the armature is physically fastened to the casing with clips so this is no longer a problem

Dave

 

[CatmanV2]

You know what, I recon these battery conditioner aren't the full ticket..
We had this conversation this afternoon after looking at my 200 quid 5 year old Exide battery that had failed for no reason
In normal use batteries get discharged and recharged on a regular basis every week, for example the original battery on my Fiat 500 is 10 years old an still works fine

But on a car that doesn't get used very often this doesn't happen, then you stick a conditioner thingy on it, ok it keeps it charged but it cant discharge it quickly on a regular basis leading to sulphating of the plates

What do you recon

Dave

I reckon you're not quite right. What makes you think the battery gets discharged? Normally you start the car once and by the time you turn if off, it's fully charged. BUT if you have to start it again, quite soon (which is not often) then there's not going to be any issue. Even if it's 3 or 4 times (which happens basically never unless there's a fault)

So at most starting the car drops the charge by maybe 10-20% (I'd say more like 10% or less) and that's what you do most of the time.

I'm sure Zep will be along soon to do the maths, but that says to me you're very rarely discharging the battery more than about 20% which should be quite easy to do over a longer time period (say 12 hours)

Ref the Fiat my guess is it's got a far lower requirement either to start or run, so lower current through the battery.

But it's before 0600 and I could be totally wrong

C

 

[Zep]

I reckon you're not quite right. What makes you think the battery gets discharged? Normally you start the car once and by the time you turn if off, it's fully charged. BUT if you have to start it again, quite soon (which is not often) then there's not going to be any issue. Even if it's 3 or 4 times (which happens basically never unless there's a fault)

So at most starting the car drops the charge by maybe 10-20% (I'd say more like 10% or less) and that's what you do most of the time.

I'm sure Zep will be along soon to do the maths, but that says to me you're very rarely discharging the battery more than about 20% which should be quite easy to do over a longer time period (say 12 hours)

Ref the Fiat my guess is it's got a far lower requirement either to start or run, so lower current through the battery.

But it's before 0600 and I could be totally wrong

C

How did you know I was talking about battery tech in the bar last night?

Anyway the issue is that if a battery is under charge for long periods it corrodes the positive matrix in the cells. This increases the impedance (ohmic and ionic resistance) that prevents the passing of current at peak demand. Battery conditioners are supposed to avoid this, by periodically cycling the battery, perhaps this is the bit that isn’t working.

Yes, it was dull

 

[Cox]

Thanks guys. The battery is well within warranty (less than a year old), so I will take it to ECP with my receipt and hopefully they will swap it for another one. If I have the same issue, then I know it isn't the battery for sure and then move onto the starter.

I am suprised the battery would have died after such a short period of time though. But I could have just had a dodgy one I guess, we will see...

 

[TimR]

Ive had over a half dozen batteries on tender/trickle/smart chargers for over 5 years..
Some of them I know to drain the batteries and the reason I started using the chargers...
No issues whatsoever....Batteries are all good, unaffected by cold weather and can be left over winter with nothing more than a periodic check on the status lights on the chargers...

<shrug>

 

[Contigo]

If it is a manual car there is a simple way to prove it is the starter motor or not . Bump start the car in second gear, I've done this numerous times with 3200's with shot starters.

 

[conaero]

You know what, I recon these battery conditioner aren't the full ticket..

This has been my feeling for a while too Dave. I think they fry the batteries.

What I do it put the CTEK on over the winter months for a day...probalby about once a month and start it the next day.

I would say the above issue the poster has is a direct result of this and fitting a new battery will start the car. For the sake of £100/a tank of fuel it silly not to just do it.

 

[Scaf]

Like others I am suspicious of trickle chargers and don’t leave mine connected all the time.

When I first got my car 2010 the battery would be flat within a week or two, sometimes less. Using Ctek recon mode I now get at least 4 weeks on the drive and that includes 48hours of my dashcam running. It’s a genuine Maser battery so could even be the original fornall I know.

Now I pop the car on regen mode every 3 weeks or so and kee my fingers crossed.

 

[Cox]

Thanks guys, if the new battery works then I will try and be a bit less lazy with the ctek charger. I just connect it when I sorn the car over the winter and then expect it to work when the spring comes around, that's what I would have kind of expected/hoped to happen anyway!