Skyhook Dampers / Coilovers

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
I’ve just got back from set up @ Centre Gravity today in fact... After tweaking the KWs (they had settled significantly), I’m in love with them again....!
Chris had a circa 1994 3.6 911 (964?) on the ramp and was refitting struts in all four corners. Remade to original spec, they are on a par with the Eurospares units mentioned above, price wise ( @£200 a corner apparently) The car had >100K miles, and this was the first time they had needed replacing...!
Makes you realize the KWs aren’t cheap. The FD units are significantly more...!
 

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
@alfatwo I’ve messaged David A and he didn’t have a set sadly.

Eurospares sells the 4 dampers for £1000 brand new, cheapest I’ve seen coilovers are around twice that but I reckon its worthwile.

The non Skyhook GS uses the same ones as the normal 4200, it rides stiffer due to the 19s but retains a lot of bodyroll.
Just get a set off eBay cheaply and send them over to DA to faff with

Dave
 

Twinspark

Member
Messages
460
Makes you realize the KWs aren’t cheap. The FD units are significantly more...!
KWs retail for £2.2 on average (I've seen as low as £1.8), while FD is £2.8. From what I know FD holds sales near Black Friday/Christmas season which depending on the discount rate could make them cheaper. I prefer the look of them but that's not enough to justify the premium.
Just get a set off eBay cheaply and send them over to DA to faff with

Dave
Wouldn't it be more cost effective to send over my existing units? That and I don't even know if they can refurbed... also at this point I'm heavily leaning towards going to a full setup.
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
...at this point I'm heavily leaning towards going to a full setup.

FD might give a vat sized discount. Ive bought from them, and got about 15% on ARB's and the dreaded toe bar kits...
Their ARB kit a decent enough. It ought to be for the price frankly ! The front is a beefy unit and it fits with no issues whilst there isnt a great deal of wiggle room if it wasnt...
The fact they still sell those toe rod plain bearing kits for £200 makes me wonder why they sully their reputation with tat that isnt what they say it is. Of my pair, one failed inside 300 miles. You then have to pay to get geo reset, so add another £50-100
Ive just removed the one I left in situ ( yesterday) which was showing play @2K miles...FD were arrogant and dismissive. Everybody else was wrong except them...!
Just makes me wonder what else they do that sux?


With a non Skyhook car- I think you should go a full coil over. You wont regret it...
KW V3s are a known quantity.
Who knows what the FD kit is tbh !:)
 

Twinspark

Member
Messages
460
Agree with you completely, I think FD are the only ones that offer an ARB upgrade no? I’ve not heard of anything else being used.

With a non Skyhook car- I think you should go a full coil over. You wont regret it...
KW V3s are a known quantity.
Who knows what the FD kit is tbh !:)
It seems only logical as I don't have to hassle with the error cancellation, although one has to wonder what a Skyhook car feels like. Now just to see if KW themselves hold a sale for this coming period, fingers crossed due to COVID and presumably low demand for a 4200 coilover kit.
 
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FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
My understanding is that the FD coilovers are copies of the KW V3's with claimed minor improvements (not sure what these improvements are beyond the colour scheme).

@Twinspark are you based in UK/Europe or US? The FD items might be cheaper in the US before taxes on the KWs but if you are on the other side of the pond then the FD coil overs are so expensive after taxes a 10% discount on their sale will not be enough

I have the FD ARBs on standard springs with skyhook... The car tends to oversteer slightly due to the soft stock springs but it's totally manageable. Ideally i would like to fit the KW V3s but struggling to justify the cost currently. I am basically waiting for a skyhook damper to start leaking when I can justify the £2k outlay for the parts to my wife lol

For now I am probably going to replace my factory springs with brand new ones as they have slight rust on them... You never know though I might go to purchase the new springs from the factory and spear off to KW V3s instead

Another vote down for the rose joint tie rods... I actually got mine off Craig but the FD ones are the same, the bearing failed after 8k miles but more critically the rod part was bent like a banana so not exactly fit for purpose

My ramblings aside I would get KW V3s for your GS
 

Twinspark

Member
Messages
460
I'm in the Middle East so I always prefer getting from UK/Europe. Exactly if the FD discount isn't more than 25-30% then it would not be cost effective at all.

Speaking of the tie rods, I tried getting a set from Craig/FD but they did not answer me, they're offered by a vendor in Europe for the same price (A-S Motorsport), but I think I'll go with Zep's(?) solution which was to change the SKF brand bearing on them.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
The SFK bearing is the stock part fitted by the factory. It lasts circa 20k miles and costs £40 which is much more cost effective than the rose joint solution

The rose joints make the rear suspension a little stiff, for example driving over "cats eyes" on the motorway was a lot more jolting vs the stock bearing which is obviously a little softer.

If you would deal with FD direct in your region then you will get whatever discount they offer during their cyber holiday - maybe 20%. However in the UK we have to go through Larini where I had to ask specifically if they could request a discount for me during the sale and it was half of what they were offering direct customers... So I got 10% off the ARB kit for Timr and I... Which is better than nothing, initially the answer was FD are doing a sale but Larini are not ! :rolleyes:
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
My understanding is that the FD coilovers are copies of the KW V3's with claimed minor improvements (not sure what these improvements are beyond the colour scheme).

How do they even get away with that ..?
One thing to note- FD offer a Skyhook error delete in the form of a plug that cheats the ECU to think the damper is still present. A friend of mine who build looms for race bikes for the TT and BSB and the like, tells me he has played with this and a set value resistor, plugged into the loom is too simple to work in most all cases....FD confirmed that their error delete isnt that simple either...
Maybe it expalins the cost of the FD kit if its included. ( I cant remember TBH) Not something you need in a non Skyhook car anyway but of you have Skyhook, AND a CC box..it gets a little more tricky. I switched off Sport mode in my manual. Its easy. But doing that to a CC car will delete F1 Sport mode functions ...and that'd never do !

Speaking of the tie rods, I tried getting a set from Craig/FD but they did not answer me, they're offered by a vendor in Europe for the same price (A-S Motorsport), but I think I'll go with Zep's(?) solution which was to change the SKF brand bearing on them.

£15 a pop for the SKF item..
Mind you - the FD plain bearing, teflon enhanced rod ends can be had for about the same anyway...! Just thread them onto some cheesy string of the right length and away you go....!!:D
 

Swedish Paul

Member
Messages
1,807
How do they even get away with that ..?
One thing to note- FD offer a Skyhook error delete in the form of a plug that cheats the ECU to think the damper is still present. A friend of mine who build looms for race bikes for the TT and BSB and the like, tells me he has played with this and a set value resistor, plugged into the loom is too simple to work in most all cases....FD confirmed that their error delete isnt that simple either...
Maybe it expalins the cost of the FD kit if its included. ( I cant remember TBH) Not something you need in a non Skyhook car anyway but of you have Skyhook, AND a CC box..it gets a little more tricky. I switched off Sport mode in my manual. Its easy. But doing that to a CC car will delete F1 Sport mode functions ...and that'd never do !



£15 a pop for the SKF item..
Mind you - the FD plain bearing, teflon enhanced rod ends can be had for about the same anyway...! Just thread them onto some cheesy string of the right length and away you go....!!:D
Isn’t the delete the same as swapping a steering wheel with an airbag for one that doesn’t have one. Common on Porches. I don’t remember exactly, but a cheap 2 pound bit.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
Isn’t the delete the same as swapping a steering wheel with an airbag for one that doesn’t have one. Common on Porches. I don’t remember exactly, but a cheap 2 pound bit.

Doubt it the airbag ECU test just checks for continuity. The shock system cycles the adjuster from stop to stop.
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
Isn’t the delete the same as swapping a steering wheel with an airbag for one that doesn’t have one. Common on Porches. I don’t remember exactly, but a cheap 2 pound bit.
Its too simple- the damping is controlled by moving a valve but something has to scale that actuation...An air bag is either there or it aint ! The damper isnt so silly...!
The result is that the resistors get too hot and burn out. There is a risk of fire then...? It is likely the ECU can see that the values arent correct..or at least, they arent whats expected....which it has to know to set the adaptive rate...!
Skyhook is too (two) clever by half
 
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Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
Doubt it the airbag ECU test just checks for continuity. The shock system cycles the adjuster from stop to stop.

For a 3200 yes, 4200 skyhook uses a solenoid in the damper piston so I suspect the ECU looks for a resistance on the coil.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
I thought it was an internal motor.

The connector only has two pins, so I don’t think it will work like the 3200 ones where there is enough connections to motor it both ways. I understand it works the same way as the F360.
 

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Evo Cymru

Member
Messages
688
Interesting reading here as I am tempted to go down the KW route eventually, probably as FIFTY when the originals start to go...

@TimR Is/was your car equipped with Skyhook? If so, how did you go about disabling it for the KWs?
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
The question isnt do you have Skyhook..?
Its do you have a CC box..?
Pretty sure Ive covered it....


How do they even get away with that ..?
One thing to note- FD offer a Skyhook error delete in the form of a plug that cheats the ECU to think the damper is still present. A friend of mine who build looms for race bikes for the TT and BSB and the like, tells me he has played with this and a set value resistor, plugged into the loom is too simple to work in most all cases....FD confirmed that their error delete isnt that simple either...
Maybe it expalins the cost of the FD kit if its included. ( I cant remember TBH) Not something you need in a non Skyhook car anyway but of you have Skyhook, AND a CC box..it gets a little more tricky. I switched off Sport mode in my manual. Its easy. But doing that to a CC car will delete F1 Sport mode functions ...and that'd never do !
 
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MrJoshua

Member
Messages
175
I'm thinking about getting some H&R Gransport springs for my 4200.

They lower the GS by 25mm, and the GS is (I think) 10mm lower than the 4200, so that should give me a 35mm drop.

They're not TUV certified, but that's alright as I don't live in Germany ;)

I've used H&R on a few previous cars and have been really happy with them.

 

sparkplug155

Member
Messages
126
I'm thinking about getting some H&R Gransport springs for my 4200.

They lower the GS by 25mm, and the GS is (I think) 10mm lower than the 4200, so that should give me a 35mm drop.

They're not TUV certified, but that's alright as I don't live in Germany ;)

I've used H&R on a few previous cars and have been really happy with them.

I had thought about changing the springs during lockdown as they were looking a bit tatty. Obviously I didn't but the good news for you is that if you do change them you will find I went round and freed off the front & rear tie rods so getting it tracked shouldn't be a major issue.