Schools

Corranga

Member
Messages
1,219
WTF is wrong with you people? , If you are clever enough to do well, why would you need this? , make your own way and don't say because it's my offspring coz that's what the Masons say........

I think it's fair to say that a nurtured child will excel easier than one that is simply left to their own devices.
I expect that the success rates of good schools (be it public or private) is due to some for of pushing, whether that's nurturing or not is a different story.

I think the answer to the Ops question is that it's simply not that easy and the kids character will depend a lot on what the best school is for them, and to think about their character and go visit the school is very important.
Playing stereotypes a bit to try to explain that, a shy kid who isn't physically fit, however is very smart, will probably be held back by a military style boarding school that's constantly pushing them by shouting at them, and by them not necessarily fitting in. A less intelligent kid who does fit in there has potential to excel and do better than the first kid.

I was in the top couple of percent in my school, I was the clever enough kid that made my own way. My school was among the worst in Scotland.
Did I do well, sure, I can't complain. Could I have done better if I wasn't at a school where lessons were constantly disrupted by other idiots who would rather get a toilet pass to smoke in the toilets, setting off fire alarms and even setting the building on fire, bully folk, set gas taps alight in science class, sell and do drugs outside during breaks, skip classes to chuck stones at windows of other classes, deliberately destroy equipment for fun, steal / hide / vandalise workbooks and other kids work, have entire classes cancelled so staff could basically interrogate or discipline, or simply preach about the state of thing / investigate vandalism to school or staff or student property etc. I think I might have. This doesn't mean a private school of course.


Also, this all insinuates that how clever you (or which school you go to) are aligned with how well you do in life, which of course isn't true at all, but the biases of where you are born and in what society that happens to be are a whole different topic.
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
With Joseph having just started primary school a few weeks ago, we have priced up private school for him, as he's very bright, but tends to have the attention span of a goldfish.
We wondered if a private school might be better for him as with smaller classes he would get great attention and might make him focus.
His best friend from nursery has gone to the school we were looking at and she is excelling there.

He's made some great friends in his school and his teacher says he is excelling already, so I don't think we have to worry about the attention span.
But maybe if he is excelling so much already he might be better suited to a school that will push him further.

It's a difficult thing to choose, stay in a state primary school or send him to a private school. We can afford it, but it all depends what is best all round for him.

No doubt all will be made clear over the next year or so.
 

bigbob

Member
Messages
8,952
With Joseph having just started primary school a few weeks ago, we have priced up private school for him, as he's very bright, but tends to have the attention span of a goldfish.
We wondered if a private school might be better for him as with smaller classes he would get great attention and might make him focus.
His best friend from nursery has gone to the school we were looking at and she is excelling there.

He's made some great friends in his school and his teacher says he is excelling already, so I don't think we have to worry about the attention span.
But maybe if he is excelling so much already he might be better suited to a school that will push him further.

It's a difficult thing to choose, stay in a state primary school or send him to a private school. We can afford it, but it all depends what is best all round for him.

No doubt all will be made clear over the next year or so.
There is no right answer. I went to an appalling comp and life turned out fine but for many it did not. I would not rush the decision. I wanted my kids to be grounded to left them in the state system until about ten then sent them to a fee paying day school. All now at top unis so that bit of their lives has worked out. After uni no idea, they are adults then and possibly even now!
 
Messages
1,687
Corranga, I don't think there are any military style boarding schools in the UK. There are some secondary level military academies in the US. Maybe that's what you're thinking of.
I thought it was hilarious, when Harvard felt the need to introduce ethics courses, after so many of their alumni were indicted as a result of criminal activities, mainly during the Enron and housing / banking scandals of recent times. But, what about the parents of those Harvard alumni. Where were their ethics?
My education doesn't matter here, because my life isn't much relevant to anyone else's.
I think that the most important thing in a child's life is to be happy. Happy at home. Happy in school and with a good circle of friends by whom they're valued and vice versa. We grow up to become our parents in many many cases, if not the overwhelming majority of cases. So, as a parent, you have to include the role of teacher. Because like it or not, you are your children's first, last and most important teacher. And if you're an absent parent, that is what you're teaching your children to be. Unless they can break the programming. Which is a hard thing to do.
Your values will become theirs. Your morals will become theirs. They will treat others as you do.
Schools are the educational equivalent of battery farms. Yet, few raise a peep to suggest there might be another way. Everything is geared towards production of the year's output of new citizens. Classes are rigidly controlled. Timetables are strictly enforced. Absenteeism is punished, over certain limits. Start and end times are likewise, rigid. On the most basic level, this is abnormal. Before we became industrialised, we would rise and retire according to sunrise and sunset and the seasons.
Child psychological development is a huge branch of psychology. With an enormous body of proven research going back over a century. Yet if you suggest to a random parent that they might benefit from picking up a book on child development. Chances are you might receive a slap or an expletive, at what is received as an implied criticism. I would suggest that unless you have some understanding of nurture and nature, then you're leaving your child's development entirely up to chance. Including the formal school element. Because you will rarely if ever really know what happens during the school day. Nature is beyond our control, but knowledge of, is important. The responsibility of nurture begins and ends with the parent. Literally. And contracting out bits in the middle is no excuse for your own absenteeism. If for no other reason. Your children will become you, to seek and obtain your approval.
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
2,734
@Corranga reminding me of my secondary modern in the mid 70's.
It wasn't much different in the 90s, can't imagine it is now.

I don't have children, and I was state educated. But if I did have children and had the means, I wouldn't think twice about private education.
 

DLax69

Member
Messages
4,179
Tough...despite being wholly uneducated, I spent some time working in education. Have led an independent school, and been engaged by other K-12 districts. My mother was a teacher. The only generalization I can make is....there is no generalization. Each child has different needs, and each child would receive specific benefits from the correct environment. All else being equal...I echo Mike on the fact that if the parent(s)/custodian(s) are engaged, the kid is going to do as well as possible, anywhere.

Sometimes it's not equal, though...and that's a story for another time.
 
Last edited:

MarkMas

Chief pedant
Messages
8,795
There is no right answer. I went to an appalling comp and life turned out fine but for many it did not. I would not rush the decision. I wanted my kids to be grounded to left them in the state system until about ten then sent them to a fee paying day school. All now at top unis so that bit of their lives has worked out. After uni no idea, they are adults then and possibly even now!

I went to a top-ten, posh, boys-only, rural, remote, private boarding school (where I was taught chemistry by the same man who had taught my father 30 years earlier). I hated it because it was a hearty, sporty, competitive, unthinking brute of a place, and I was an effete, argumentative weed. But being there enabled me to get into Oxford U (although some elements at the school actively discouraged my application), thus helping me on my way in a life of privilege, ease and modest achievement.

My sons started at the village primary school, until bored and disruptive, then a couple of years at a private prep (which was just about ok). They then went to a minor, middle-class, mixed, urban, nearby, private boarding school, which they loved because it was kindly, thoughtful and collaborative. (MrsMarkMas is Chair of Governors there, 10 years after they left.) They have emerged as charming, confident, thoughtful fellows, now both working in public service, and unlikely to be able to afford private schools for any children they may have.
 

Lozzer

Member
Messages
2,280
I suppose I was advocating Darwinion Selection in a way, the amount of Private/Uni educatated graduates that have crossed my path and been useless with their heads in the clouds is unreal, and we are talking a Nuclear industry here, anyway I digress, absolutely no offence intended to anyone here.
 
Last edited:

Mavster

Member
Messages
427
We just found out that the wife is expecting a new arrival (19 years after the last one), a few weeks ago. I do hope she (daughter) will be clever enough to get into Grammer School, else I feel I'm gonna be a poor old man
 

Felonious Crud

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
21,013
We just found out that the wife is expecting a new arrival (19 years after the last one), a few weeks ago. I do hope she (daughter) will be clever enough to get into Grammer School, else I feel I'm gonna be a poor old man
Massive congratulations! Well done and best wishes.
 

Marco07

Member
Messages
373
Here is a new topic I think
A distant relative is considering sending her challenged daughter to a private school at a cost of £65000pa
The school seems ok, its the cost that alarms me. The poor girl will not be going on to University or anything like that. I realise as parents we all want to do our best for offspring but this seems excessive
Am I out of touch?
Hi Dave, we have a son with Aspergers who started in the state school system but it didn’t work for him. The problem was getting him a formal diagnosis and this didn’t happen until he was 11, by which time we’d moved him to a private school out of shear desperation to try and help him. It was a massive financial burden to us and went against all our principles but we felt we had to do everything we could for him. (Our other children stsyed in the state system). The cost isn’t just limited to the fees so beware.
In hindsight I would have kept him in the state schools and spent the extra money on additional support somehow. The key is getting an early diagnosis for any additional educational needs so that the funding can be put in place to deliver it. You will never get a child statemented in the privately educated system and the private schools won’t assist.
I wish your relatives all the best and hope they find a solution that works out well.