Robotized Gearbox Repair/Refurb/Upgrade?

[Evo Cymru]

Afternoon all,

Since buying my Gransport about 4 years ago I have always routinely checked the hydraulic pump and recycle times for the robotizied gearbox. Gradually over time, the 'cycle' time has reduced until now it is around 30 secs at idle - not good and about time I dealt with it I think, though the car drives fine.

The Advanced Electronics manual states:
In the case of hydraulic problems use the following procedure in order to isolate the
offending component:
Key ON, Engine Off: the interval time between two pump activations must be no less
than 2 minutes.
Key On, Engine running: the interval time between two pump activations must be no
less than 60 seconds. This makes it possible to check the clutch solenoid valve and, by
acquiring the pump restart times, the condition of the accumulator.
The conditions of the electric pump can be assessed by acquisition of its activation
time: an activation ramp with an increasingly gradual slope and activation time in
excess of 5 seconds are clear symptoms of deterioration of the pump.

My feeling is that the pump is fine (I replaced it several years ago and it runs for less than 5secs to build the pressure back up) so the pressure accumulator or one of the solenoids may be leaking internally. If I take it to a specialist I'm hoping they should be able identify which of these it would be (or indeed something else) using the SD3 reader. Before I do this though I thought I would check with the Maserati Massive on here to see:

1. Has anyone had the solenoids refurbished at all? Each unit is quite expensive and I'm sure I remember a few years ago someone in Europe working on them?? My thinking is that it maybe it would be worth looking at them all at the same time rather than wait for another one to go? Are they even a common failure point??

2. Same for the pressure accumulator - are they able to be refurbished or is it wiser just to get new?

3. Upgrades - anyone looked at improving the system at all? I believe the Ferrari accumulator used on the 360 is a different design (as is the pump as well) - possibly better?

I'll obviously report back on the specialist findings but it set my mind to pondering about how to make the system a bit more robust/bullet proof. Any thoughts?

Olly

 

[zagatoes30]

There was some discussion on here in the past about refurbishment but not sure where it got to. I donated the actuator, out of my Spyder, when it failed and was replaced to the cause. Replacement parts are silly prices so if a refurbish option was available it would be good news but from talking to Emblem they have yet to find anyone who could do it successfully.

 

[conaero]

Many have promised and all have failed. Zag your old actuator is with Voicey who do date has had no answers.

Benny has just been through a refurb with another specialist who said "no problem" and failed. In the end a used actuator was fitted.

If it were me, I would simply just buy a new one.

 

[2b1ask1]

BennyD was saying there is possibly an upgraded one available, may be worth tapping him with a PM as he is in the market for one this week! Be gentle though as it is a sore point ATM...

 

[zagatoes30]

If it were me, I would simply just buy a new one.

WHS

 

[Evo Cymru]

There was some discussion on here in the past about refurbishment but not sure where it got to. I donated the actuator, out of my Spyder, when it failed and was replaced to the cause. Replacement parts are silly prices so if a refurbish option was available it would be good news but from talking to Emblem they have yet to find anyone who could do it successfully.

Ahh the hydraulic actuator is another part of the system to consider as well, in fact is it a more common problem?

 

[Gp79]

The accumulator is a different shape / size to Ferrari or Alfa, bit I’m sure a hydraulics specialist could match it up. Maserati is oblong, ferrari is round shaped.
I believe the the solenoid valves are same as an Alfa so could be replaced for low cost.
No idea on the actuator, bit if you do replace any of the above it will probably need the air bleeding out properly.
Best get it hooked up to the diagnostics and check the leakage rates to see what is wrong.

 

[Evo Cymru]

The accumulator is a different shape / size to Ferrari or Alfa, bit I’m sure a hydraulics specialist could match it up. Maserati is oblong, ferrari is round shaped.
I believe the the solenoid valves are same as an Alfa so could be replaced for low cost.
No idea on the actuator, bit if you do replace any of the above it will probably need the air bleeding out properly.
Best get it hooked up to the diagnostics and check the leakage rates to see what is wrong.

Yes that is first plan of action though somehow my feeling is the accumulator....Good call on the solenoids - if they are the same as the Alfa that may well be a lot cheaper. Still have some GTA contacts from when I had mine which used the same system. I'll try and find out as much as possible to report back - hopefully will be useful to others as theses cars get older!

 

[HowardM]

On the actuator, spotted this the other day:
https://www.ssautotech.co.uk/product-page/actuator-rebuild-service

Some blurb about the company here:
https://www.ssautotech.co.uk/about

 

[CatmanV2]

Name ring a bell as it nog ending up well. Of course I may be doing them a disservice.

C

 

[Evo Cymru]

On the actuator, spotted this the other day:
https://www.ssautotech.co.uk/product-page/actuator-rebuild-service

Some blurb about the company here:
https://www.ssautotech.co.uk/about

Interesting find - might contact them to see if they work on the other parts of the system.

Perhaps Benny D might post on his findings/experiences regarding the actuator?

 

[zagatoes30]

AS previously stated there are lots who have suggested they can refurb the actuator but none have been successful as far as I am aware. You will find similar comments of Ferrari and Lambo forums, there must be a reason why these are so challenging.

 

[Evo Cymru]

On the actuator, spotted this the other day:
https://www.ssautotech.co.uk/product-page/actuator-rebuild-service

Some blurb about the company here:
https://www.ssautotech.co.uk/about

So have contacted this company and they have suggested that they can work on all the parts of the system - either cleaning/refurbing or replacing. They suggest that the actuator is the main problem in the system which is where they offer their main upgrade service, No idea if they are any good but thought I would post their response in the interim. Perhaps others have used them?

 

[Zep]

So have contacted this company and they have suggested that they can work on all the parts of the system - either cleaning/refurbing or replacing. They suggest that the actuator is the main problem in the system which is where they offer their main upgrade service, No idea if they are any good but thought I would post their response in the interim. Perhaps others have used them?

They certainly talk a good game. As they are in Bicester I might try and pop in next time I am passing.

 

[Evo Cymru]

As a belated update to this - I have finally got round to speaking to my local specialist about symptoms I have. Unfortunately they have suggested that reading the leakage rates will not help pinpoint where the problem in the system might actually be so each part - actuator, accumulator and solenoid - would need to be removed to test to find the fault (unless it was very obviously a particular part on removal) which would all add to the cost of finding where the problem was before you even get to the cost of replacing the part that is stuffed! With the cost of dropping the gearbox this is not something you would want to be doing more than once so perhaps testing all would be the best anyway? Hmmm conundrums!

 

[conaero]

To remove the actuator on a 4200 (GTS you have to) you don’t need to drop the box. The company above do a flow bench test for a couple of hundred quid, that’s where I would start.

 

[voicey]

As a belated update to this - I have finally got round to speaking to my local specialist about symptoms I have. Unfortunately they have suggested that reading the leakage rates will not help pinpoint where the problem in the system might actually be so each part - actuator, accumulator and solenoid - would need to be removed to test to find the fault (unless it was very obviously a particular part on removal) which would all add to the cost of finding where the problem was before you even get to the cost of replacing the part that is stuffed! With the cost of dropping the gearbox this is not something you would want to be doing more than once so perhaps testing all would be the best anyway? Hmmm conundrums!

From the info posted in the OP, either your EVF is worn or the release bearing is leaking. If your specialist doesn't know how to interpret the leak off times and rates (as reported by the SD2) then you should find someone who does. Removing and testing parts that do not influence the leak off is a waste of time and money.

 

[Evo Cymru]

To remove the actuator on a 4200 (GTS you have to) you don’t need to drop the box. The company above do a flow bench test for a couple of hundred quid, that’s where I would start.

Ah ha! Thanks for that - thought it would need dropping for access though imagine it would be a tight squeeze to get to it! As you suggest this may be the best place to start....

 

[Evo Cymru]

From the info posted in the OP, either your EVF is worn or the release bearing is leaking. If your specialist doesn't know how to interpret the leak off times and rates (as reported by the SD2) then you should find someone who does. Removing and testing parts that do not influence the leak off is a waste of time and money.

Thanks Voicey - I take it that you would be able use the data to isolate the faulty item then - will try another specialist to see what they say.

Out of general interest - regarding the companies supplying upgraded actuators - have you had any experience fitting and follow-up with these?

 

[domibln]

In the case of hydraulic problems use the following procedure in order to isolate the
offending component:
Key ON, Engine Off: the interval time between two pump activations must be no less
than 2 minutes.
Key On, Engine running: the interval time between two pump activations must be no
less than 60 seconds. This makes it possible to check the clutch solenoid valve and, by
acquiring the pump restart times, the condition of the accumulator.

You already mentioned this key piont: this test will tell you either it is the pressure accumulator or something related to the clutch (EVF solenoid valve or release bearing). If the first check gets you a pump cycle interval below 2 minutes, you should look at the accumulator. These are filled with Nitrogen which can evaporate by the time. Unfortunately they are designed with the goal to make them impossible to service (refill). So you will need to go with a new accumulator.

If it's the second check (engine turned on) which gives you a too short interval, you should check the EVF valve (QPV solenoid valve, available for example here) or the release bearing.