Quattroporte Rattle on Start Up

Sycostylie

New Member
Messages
1
On the GS you just press the button and it start in under a second...dry sump.

I think the Battery has a bit to do with the turnover at starting, I noticed a distinct difference after fitting a new battery, the start up was back to almost instant.

Now I just noted after my last service, my GS started rattling for a couple of seconds on start up :-(
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,764
Has anybody ever had an engine explode because they ignored it , I had an iveco diesel that lost oil pressure overnight and rattled on startup, started at 100,000 miles and was still running at 250,000 miles.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I've seen quite a few low mileage QP engines on eBay for not much more than the cost of a variator change, if I had a QP with 60,000 miles on it and a slight rattle I'd leave it to see if it got worse, if it did I'd sooner spend 6k on a low mileage engine that has the updated variators

There's one 4.2 that's had a 4.7 engine fitted which sounds like a better way to spend the money.

I really hate spending money for no benefit
 

Massa in Perth

New Member
Messages
277
I've just bought a 2005/6 QP - therefore dry sump 4.2, and got a fright the first morning cold starting it. The same clatter for 2-3 seconds then it smooths out. I've done a lot of forum searches and it seems the known variator issue only relates to wet sump engines so not relevant to my car. My car's behaviour when cold is normal.

I am still worried and looking for some thought on the following questions if possible please: 1. Am I to understand that all dry sump cars make the same noise on startup. i.e. are there owners out there that don't get the noise when cold starting? 2. Does this mean all of these cars have made this noise from new? If not, I'm struggling to see this as "normal" although more than happy to be corrected. 3, I do like the idea of turning the engine over briefly, then starting it on the next key turn. If that eliminates the noise then it 'feels" intuitively like a good practise. Any other thoughts on this from those more technical than I (not hard..)? If there are different experiences, I wonder if oil type is a factor...?

Really keen to get some experienced comments not just for me but for others with the same question relating to the dry sump engine.

Thanks in advance, Toby
 

dickygrace

www.richardgracecars.co.uk
Messages
7,309
I was under the impression it didn't affect these engines until recently but it is possible that variators can start to rattle on these cars too. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
 

Massa in Perth

New Member
Messages
277
Thanks Richard, I'm assuming you've seen a few examples with the problem recently, care to expand? In your experience, are the symptoms, cure, risks if left untreated the same as with the wet sump engine then?
 

dickygrace

www.richardgracecars.co.uk
Messages
7,309
I don't know any more than that, I just was surprised when Autoshield Maserati were doing variators on a duo-select. Only example I have known.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,119
We have done a few down here in New Zealand on imported cars from Singapore.
Also issues with the plastic guides for the timing chains breaking up.
We use Shell Helix 10W60 also in the Dry sump engines where as back in the UK it was 5W40.
Get it looked at as soon as as one resulted in bent valves.
 

Massa in Perth

New Member
Messages
277
Thanks, used castrol edge 10W60 on the 3200GT on Indy mechanic's recommendation. Will confirm same is appropriate for this one. My car is Australian delivered. Any reason Sing' cars should have problems specifically?
 

boomerang

Member
Messages
412
So many topics about variator rattle, missed this one!
Very intersting info in this one, thanks.

As for the dry sump engines: variators do wear and will star rattling sooner or later.
It is a matter of loosing oil in the high pressure oil system of the variator circuit.

Solved it by using a pre lube pump.
For those who are interested and missed the topic:

http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/sho...variator-oil-system-pre-lubing?highlight=lube
 

Contigo

Sponsor
Messages
18,376
Thanks, used castrol edge 10W60 on the 3200GT on Indy mechanic's recommendation. Will confirm same is appropriate for this one. My car is Australian delivered. Any reason Sing' cars should have problems specifically?

10W60 is correct lubrication for the 3200 engine although Selenia racing is the one recommended and not Shell Helix but there are a few dealers in the UK who do use it in 3200's.
 

boomerang

Member
Messages
412
I posted this on the maseratiforum a while ago, not sure if it helps

I've just been looking through the collection of the Maserati Academy documents that have just been posted here here One document (the 4200 wet sump engine overhaul training manual) explains how the cam variator is held in place (at rest) by a spring loaded locking pin. here and full document here http://www.scribd.com/doc/201140054/4200-Wet-Sump-Engine-Overhaul (what look like notes from the training course) explains that a rattle on start up can be caused by the pin not engaging https://www.dropbox.com/s/jf640pxmcfrorr5/Dec-11-2014_11.51.47-CapturFiles.png?dl=0 So I guess the explanation on the wet sump (QP & GT autos) is that the spring forcing the locking pin into the cam variator at rest, gets gradually weaker over time and does not always lock the variator into place properly. Then when the engine is started you get the rattle because the variator can move as there is neither the locking pin, nor oil pressure to hold its position. This may explain why the rattle does not start until the cars are 3-4 years old, and why its intermittent as the spring weakens. IF thats correct, then the fix is a new spring - but getting to it is another story!

Has anyone had the noisy cam variators fixed at any of the Independants?

What sort of money/time has it taken? Best Regards, Jason

Great stuff Jason, thanks!

Have been looking for info like that, just to understand things better.
Do you know of a similar document for the dry sump engines?
The 4200 GT manual does not provide much info about the variator system and dealers just seem to exchange parts, not bothering too much about details.

I am very curious to find out which parts in the high pressure Variator are wearing exactly.
Hope the Maserati specialist that gets my TB's, is willing to hand me over a broken one after a repair.
That could make things clear after taking it apart.
 

Massa in Perth

New Member
Messages
277
Yes excellent info, would be very interesting to know if Jason's "spring theory" can also be applied to the dry sump engine. I've read that another key difference between the two engines is that the dry sump oil has further to travel and therefore has a valve which should prevent oil drainage as compared to the wet sump. as long as the valve is still working it should help, right....?
 

boomerang

Member
Messages
412
Yes it does.
Dry sump engines have an extra oil pump at the rear of the lh intake cam.

After a repair, the wet sump cars become a check valves again, as an official Maserati mod.
Parts are modified to make the entrance of the check valves possible.
 

FDAGT

New Member
Messages
27
Just looking for some advice, yesterday and now today I started the engine on 2009 Quattroporte and for approximately one to one and a half seconds there is a top end rattle on start up. After that time it is quiet. If I stop the engine and restart it there is no rattle. The problem is only when cold. Recently serviced and oil looks perfectly clean and is at correct level (checked when hot).
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Phil
Hi phil, did you ever got to the bottom of it?
 

FDAGT

New Member
Messages
27
I've only had my car few weeks and this has happened a few times. The rattle is deriving from the underside near exhausts and quickly goes away.

I can say for sure that it only happens when the weather has been 2c or below overnight. Any temperature above this, there is no problem.
Hi Chris, I have the same rattle. Did get worst with time? Did you do something to fix it? Any info will be greatly appreciated. Cheers
 

Gazcw

Member
Messages
7,699
Hi Chris, I have the same rattle. Did get worst with time? Did you do something to fix it? Any info will be greatly appreciated. Cheers
If you have an exhaust rattle before vacuum has built up it could be the exhaust valves or heat shields I guess.