Power wall, but not for solar

[mjheathcote]

We haven't got one, nor do we have solar.
My idle understanding is that one stores up solar generated electricity during the daylight hours, and then use this electricity during the hours of darkness.
However with the current energy crisis, apparently it now makes sense to have one, even if you don't have any solar panels!
There is such a difference between tariffs at night, compared to the day, that you charge the power wall at night on a cheap tariff, and use the stored electricity now during the day!
By all accounts doing this a £5k Power wall is paid back in less than 5 years.
What a crazy world we now live in.

 

[outrun]

Mike, my business partner (and friend!) was head of powerwall development North Europe for Tesla. I'll ask him about this and let you know what he says, just so you know from a true expert, what the truth is.

 

[dgmx5]

Who knew Economy 7 still existed?

I thought it was a relic of the past along with Radio Rentals, B&W TVs, top loading washing machines and Party Seven (although the latter has also made a return apparently).

 

[mjheathcote]

Who knew Economy 7 still existed?

I thought it was a relic of the past along with Radio Rentals, B&W TVs, top loading washing machines and Party Seven (although the latter has also made a return apparently).

It's those tariffs so you have 4 hours at say 5p a unit and the rest at normal rates, what ever that is now.
I must log on and see what we are being shafted with as our fixed deal ended a week ago.
All I know is that there isn't any fixed deals anymore better than the capped rates.... apart from these dual rates for EV drivers to charge up at a cheap rate at night when electricity is not in as much demand with industry.

 

[allandwf]

dual rates for EV drivers to charge up at a cheap rate at night when electricity is not in as much demand with industry.

For now lol

 

[Scaf]

Who knew Economy 7 still existed?

That reminds me, one of our rental flats still has a storage heater, really should get that swapped out for something less 1970’s!

 

[Oneball]

 

[Ewan]

Octopus offer a dual rate, which is 5p pKWH between 12.30 and 4.30 am, so ideal for charging our Audi E-Tron. From memory it’s about 13p pKWH the rest of the time.

 

[mjheathcote]

Thought I would dig a bit deeper in what we paid, pay now just out of fixed deal, and the Octopus dual tariff.

Gas.
Last 12 months £589 (fixed deal)
Next 12 months £1,000 (standard tariff)
Increase 70%

Electric.
Last 12 months £1,041 (fixed deal)
Next 12 months £1,460 (standard tariff)
Increase 40%

Combined increase 50%, which will only go up if the current price cap increases.

Looking more detail into the electric.
We used to pay 14.233p per Kwh
We now pay 20.076p per Kwh

Currently the Octopus tariff is 5p for 4 hours overnight, and 23.41p rest of time.

If we could store up all our electricity during the 4 hours, the bottom line is that we would save £1,045 per year, on the current rates.
If the government price cap increases, but the 4 hours remains at 5p, the saving I guess could be as much as £1,500 per year.

Required energy storage.
Over the last year we have used 6,782 Kwh.
Simple calculation would be therefore approx 18.6 Kwh per day.
A Powerwall 2 has a usable capacity of 13.5 Kwh and it appears around £9k installed.

So in conclusion, unless the Powerwall costs come down, or the electricity costs go up massively, in our case, the payback time will still be nearer 10 years than 5 years.

I'm off now to turn down the AGA a little bit, turn off some of our radiators, and go foraging for some wood for our open fire!

 

[Gazcw]

Who knew Economy 7 still existed?

I thought it was a relic of the past along with Radio Rentals, B&W TVs, top loading washing machines and Party Seven (although the latter has also made a return apparently).

Economy 10 exists too.

 

[2b1ask1]

I think Capes sells Economy 11…

 

[midlifecrisis]

Octopus offer a dual rate, which is 5p pKWH between 12.30 and 4.30 am, so ideal for charging our Audi E-Tron. From memory it’s about 13p pKWH the rest of the time.

Anybody who sold electricity for under 20p per kWh is now bust unless they have a lot of customers at a much higher rate. I've been bumped on to octopus at 21.37p per kWh following the demise of Avro who sold at 15p.

I've just noticed that my credit has finally come through from Avro too. @CatmanV2 You might want to check your account.

 

[CatmanV2]

Anybody who sold electricity for under 20p per kWh is now bust unless they have a lot of customers at a much higher rate. I've been bumped on to octopus at 21.37p per kWh following the demise of Avro who sold at 15p.

I've just noticed that my credit has finally come through from Avro too. @CatmanV2 You might want to check your account.

Thanks. Back to your bank?

C

 

[Ewan]

I’m on a fixed rate, set last January, so am unaffected by recent events.
The Octopus balance sheet is particularly strong, having recently received a major cash injection from investors. The CEO/founder was interviewed on the Today Programme this morning and is perfectly happy with the multi-billion Pound firm he has created over recent years, and rightly so.

 

[GeoffCapes]

With all this talk of tariffs, obviously day and night rates are important, but don't forget the standing charge. Traditionally this has been for transportations costs etc, but in the last few months it's been a way for energy companies to bump up what you pay on the QT.

Look at the whole cost, not just the day and night rate.

 

[Zep]

There are quite a few alternatives to the Tesla Powerwall, and a lot better pricing. But given the flux of the energy market, it’s touch and go if there will be enough stability to make this work without the solar part.

 

[mjheathcote]

With all this talk of tariffs, obviously day and night rates are important, but don't forget the standing charge. Traditionally this has been for transportations costs etc, but in the last few months it's been a way for energy companies to bump up what you pay on the QT.

Look at the whole cost, not just the day and night rate.

It's not as high or as hard to work out these days, I haven't the exact figures to hand but approx 20p a day, per utility, so compared to the unit cost and quantity used, not mega.

 

[GeoffCapes]

It's not as high or as hard to work out these days, I haven't the exact figures to hand but approx 20p a day, per utility, so compared to the unit cost and quantity used, not mega.

My point was, a lot of people just look at the day and night rate and think they are getting a good price, but when the standing charge is added, the price then turns into a shocker.

I see it all the time in commercial Flex contracts. People point at the tiny day rate and think they're getting a good deal.
Until I add up all the other charges and it turns into not such a good deal as they first thought!

 

[RodTungsten]

We looked at battery storage to add to our PV kit but cost per kWh is too high and too small to top up our runabout EV (Renault Zoe). We use Octopus Go for cheap nighttime power and an Ohme clever lead that tapers charge in cheap times and limits battery to a kinder 80% unless we want full charge via a click on the Ohme App. Result is <2p per mile for our 12kpa which helps with £1.50+ per litre for the Spyder.

 

[mjheathcote]

Is battery storage more viable?
Our electricity 14p (Dec) >21p (Now) >28p from April
What's the off peak tarrif now going to be????
Regarding our gas Aga, already got a reminder to switch it off come April, no matter what the weather is. 2p>4p>7p!