Oil pipe - tank to pump - how to get out

[oaros]

Hi All,

the tank oil pipe on my 4200 is beyond redemption, mounting/flange is too far gone to use the Hill Engineering spilt nut. The fitting is too far gone for the Hill split nut to close fully and still turn. I can post pictures if anyone is curious about this more than usually mangled nut/fittting.

Every point of the original nut had a crack, part of it was corroded to the hose fitting. The corrosion also broke the mounting face of the hose fitting. To cap it all off someone had leant on it in the past twisting the hose. So, a new hose and fitting is needed. I would like to avoid buying a replacement and go to Pirtek or a hydraulic hose shop.

So, it looks like both front exhaust pipes and the heat shield have to come off. Yes? I guess there is no chance to avoid that and wriggle the pipe out?
Are the three bolts at the pump easily accessible? I can just about see them between oil filter and steering rack.

Any advice much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[philw696]

Depending on your skill levels it's doable from under the car as I know from when I changed the oil/water pump unit back in 2014.

 

[Mr S]

Just be warned, there are 2 different types of pipe, depending on what manifolds you have. So of you do end up buying a good used one, then be sure to get the correct one.

 

[oaros]

Thanks for the comments.

Phil - moments like these I am even more envious of your garage setup, but car is already on stands, on the drive way. Can’t complain too much I could work in a smallish garage, but that space is already taken up by another toy.

MrS - thanks, that’s important - I have the newer 3 bolt one.

 

[philw696]

When I did the pump unit back in 2014 it was on the driveway on stands but I was only 52
Now I have a good sized workshop I'm setting it up for my own pleasure now.

 

[Gp79]

You can see 2 of the 3 Allen bolts here once filter is removed access is better.
I think there’s a pipe bracket on the block hidden by the heat shield which depending on the manifold type the heat shield is either easy to remove (in 2 parts) of a real pain if the one part.
Keep us posted

 

[oaros]

Thanks for the photo.
My heat shield is the one piece Euro version. All has to come off. Ordered some long hex sockets for the manifold to cat pipe bolts. Hope they will come out in one piece.

To be continued…..

 

[philw696]

Thanks for the photo.
My heat shield is the one piece Euro version. All has to come off. Ordered some long hex sockets for the manifold to cat pipe bolts. Hope they will come out in one piece.

To be continued…..

Start soaking them with rust penetrate now and wire brush any loose rust of the threads now.

 

[oaros]

Yep, true Phil - thanks. Did that last night, I won’t have time to work on them till weekend, so they have time to get a few more soakings. Also sprayed all other bolts in the vicinity in case more has to come off.

 

[oaros]

Soaking for a few days - not much help. Still nothing moving - those bolts are stuck, trying not to round out the hex socket. Time to dust off the MAP torch. If that doesn’t do it, bolt extractor sockets next. Thread on the bolts is OK, just need to get the initial break.
Any recommendations for M8X25 exhaust bolts?

 

[Gp79]

Soaking for a few days - not much help. Still nothing moving - those bolts are stuck, trying not to round out the hex socket. Time to dust off the MAP torch. If that doesn’t do it, bolt extractor sockets next. Thread on the bolts is OK, just need to get the initial break.
Any recommendations for M8X25 exhaust bolts?

To remove the Cat sections I ended up angle grinding the heads off the lower bolts as mine were never going to move and so wasted nothing to get purchase on.
Not much access for the upper ones so had to use a dremel - quite time consuming!

 

[oaros]

I think that may be the way. There is only so much time to spend on this. The angle grinder is on standby.

 

[oaros]

Just to confirm what Gp79 wrote. No chance the bolts will come out, maybe on totally rust free cars. Especially the lower bolts.
Changed my mind about the gas torch and not that happy about running grinder either as car is not that high of the ground and went with the bolt extractor. Bolts will come out or break off, either would be a step forward. In the end three sheared off about half way down the bolt, one came out.

 

[oaros]

Here some gratuitous pictures of a wrecked nut and fitting on the oil line from the tank. I believe I will win the prize for most sketchy fitting. Deep corrosion, cracks, and twisted hose.

Previous owners and deferred maintenance etc. As frequently mentioned here, gentlemen check your nuts.

 

[safrane]

That's a lucky find before the whole oil pan emptied on route.

 

[Gp79]

Glad you’re making progress, that hose did look a bit of a time bomb!

 

[oaros]

Thanks, I discovered the odd looking oil hose after the front undertray let go during some spirited driving; but that is a story for another day.

Summary so far, bolts are off. Only the upper inner bolts came out whole. The rest twisted off. Ironically, the thread that was protruding out is in better shape than the inner part of the bolt. Exhaust had to move back about 20mm so manifold and cat pipes could separate. Fortunately all the exhaust hanger bolts came out easily. Exhaust is supported by old scissor jacks in the back and middle and the cross bar of the cradle.

Next, saw off the bolts of the exhaust clamps. Nice stainless steel clamps but bolts are not, so these are rusted out. Take out cross bar, undo roll bar mounts. Then split pipes so cat pipe can be removed from car and broken off bolts in cat pipes taken out; I am not going to try to drill them out under the car. I am tempted to find a local metal shop to drill out the bolts as it has been donkeys years since I last did that.

Question - what is less likely to cause issues afterwards? Unscrew lambdas and thermocouple or undo six connectors?

In the end it was a waste of time wire brushing and soaking the bolts. Those with older cars that were driven in winter, just do as Gp79 wrote, use your preferred way to destructively remove them. For garage queens or cars from dry warm places it should work. It wasn’t all wasted time, I cleaned the handbrake mechanism, put in new shoes (one side had no liner left), and used the time to make list of next jobs - there a few.

 

[philw696]

I wouldn't remove the sensors from the pipes as you will probably end up replacing them next.
I left mine in when I did my oil/water pump unit.

 

[Gp79]

Good progress, sounds like your sleep is in similar condition to what if found!

As above remove the minimum as you don’t want to replace the O2 sensors unnecessarily.

is it one manifold off next to get the heat shield out the way?