oh jeeez - That really isn't good!

Ian H

Ian H

Member
Messages
167
So finally got her running smooth as anything after another throttle body rebuild.
Drove for ~70 miles working great and then during gentle breaking downhill I get CEL and engine fades to nothing - no pop / bang just dies.
Had a good look under bonnet nothing obvious but when tried to start her starter just whirs and nothing.
Almost sounds like it is not engaging so checked by putting her in gear and the starter moved car so not starter issue - so assume this may be loss of compression.
Double check under bonnet and then to my horror I see the top timing belt idler pulley pushed out through timing cover and a snapped timing belt ( new timing belt/pulleys less than 3 years and 1000 miles old)
I did not spot this initially so it may have been caused by me cranking engine on starter after stopping but it is possible I may have just missed it on first inspection.
Home on flat bed - decoded CEL messages as below.

I am not sure where to go from here? I can disassemble the timing covers/assembly but is there an easy way to see if I have catastrophic damage to pistons/valves?
Many thanks for any encouraging news - this really doesn't look good!
Ian

99320
 
lozcb

lozcb

Member
Messages
12,500
Shock horror mate , sorry to hear that, last thing you needed , I would buy an endiscope from ebay or amazon , quite cheap nowdays and sufficient to see whether you may have dropped a valve or other internal damage
 
Zep

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,224
I cannot imagine these are non-interference engines, and that it spins easily says you have very few cylinders with compression, so it’s almost certainly bad news. I guess your choices are either a used engine or rebuild. Gutted for you.
 
mjheathcote

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,037
Zep said:
I cannot imagine these are non-interference engines, and that it spins easily says you have very few cylinders with compression, so it’s almost certainly bad news. I guess your choices are either a used engine or rebuild. Gutted for you.
Click to expand...

My old Lancia Y10 Turbo was non interference when the belt snapped! I think due to the low compression ration/high boost combo back in the 80's.
I too suspect the chance of non interference is slim unfortunately.
 
conaero

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,625
Dreadful news I really feel for you.

I have seen, with belts in schedule, one of the idlers casting sheer off.

And yes, alas it is an interference engine.
 
Last edited:
Oneball

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,106
Bugger, it’s a turbo so low static compression. You might be lucky. Lack of compression at the moment is because the valves are out of sink so not indicative.

As Loz said get and endoscope.
 
B

Black Mazerati

Junior Member
Messages
39
I would think if it was an interference engine there would be quite a bit of noise associated when it failed and certainly not just whirring when you spin it with the starter. Fingers crossed for you!
 
Zep

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,224
Black Mazerati said:
I would think if it was an interference engine there would be quite a bit of noise associated when it failed and certainly not just whirring when you spin it with the starter. Fingers crossed for you!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I always thought that, but then the left hand bank cambelt snapped on my Alfa 33. Bent 8 valves but kept running on the right bank, no noticeably banging or clanking.
 
lozcb

lozcb

Member
Messages
12,500
Ian H said:
So finally got her running smooth as anything after another throttle body rebuild.
Drove for ~70 miles working great and then during gentle breaking downhill I get CEL and engine fades to nothing - no pop / bang just dies.
Had a good look under bonnet nothing obvious but when tried to start her starter just whirs and nothing.
Almost sounds like it is not engaging so checked by putting her in gear and the starter moved car so not starter issue - so assume this may be loss of compression.
Double check under bonnet and then to my horror I see the top timing belt idler pulley pushed out through timing cover and a snapped timing belt ( new timing belt/pulleys less than 3 years and 1000 miles old)
I did not spot this initially so it may have been caused by me cranking engine on starter after stopping but it is possible I may have just missed it on first inspection.
Home on flat bed - decoded CEL messages as below.

I am not sure where to go from here? I can disassemble the timing covers/assembly but is there an easy way to see if I have catastrophic damage to pistons/valves?
Many thanks for any encouraging news - this really doesn't look good!
Ian

View attachment 99320
Click to expand...
What ever happens from now on ..............at least until you have a definitive only hand cranking from now on , otherwise just add on the pounds
 
Lozzer

Lozzer

Member
Messages
2,283
Gutting, Yes the idler pulley casting can break, it's why I renew it when I change the belt, personally if you plan on keeping the car I would take the opportunity to have it rebuilt.
 
Ian H

Ian H

Member
Messages
167
OK
So I pulled the timing assembly apart this afternoon and there are 2 big lessons:

1 I originally bought an overhauled water pump off the forum to avoid the crazy cost of the new one. The water pump pully fell off within 10 miles and the loose timing belt nearly trashed the engine but I was lucky and stopped immediately. By the way, the replacement oil pressure sender I bought from the same source didn't work either and has been tehbain of my life ever since.

2 Rather than throwing the pump/pulley away and starting from scratch, a local engineer put a collar on the pump shaft and re attached the pulley - that was what let go again yesterday for the second time.

I have an endiscope off Ebay but I am not sure shoving it down those small spark plug appertures will really be definitive?
If I want to pull the cylinder heads and take a properly look is that engine out or can I keep digging below the manifold whilst the engine is still in the car?

If it is engine out, is that feasible with a simple engine crane in a home garage?

Many thanks

Ian
 
davy83

davy83

Member
Messages
2,821
I fitted a new water pump, not taking any chances, easy mistake to make sir.
I think you can get the heads off with the engine in situ. I also think you should be able to lift the engine out with an engine hoist.
I got an endoscope off e-bay that works on my phone but the problem is that you want to look back up at the valves once you are in the spark plug hole so you need a really small optic fibre one with a bendy end on it. you might be able to rent one?
Good luck with it and I hope its good news.
 
j s pollo

j s pollo

Member
Messages
162
Not sure but I have always been told the best way to remove the engine was from underneath undo sub frame etc and lower the engine out but best wait for the experts on this forum to tell how best to remove engine
 
B

Black Mazerati

Junior Member
Messages
39
Surely someone can define if this is an interference engine! Personally I have no idea but I would confirm before I started yanking the head off even if I had to fit a new cam belt and test the compression!
 
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