Hello all, I currently have 5 cars but never get time to drive them so am thinking of selling up and getting me one toy that I can use as a daily driver. My choices are BMW E46 M3 or a Maserati Cambiocorsa 4200? I would like the Maserati as.....well you only live once. But frightened at the prospect of bank emptying bills. So I am after a couple of nuggets of advice - firstly what should i look out for when buying? Would anyone advise against using as a daily? How much is the servicing likely to cost me at an independent specialist and can anyone recommend a good specialist on the M1 corridor between London and Milton Keynes? Any advice gratefully received. Many thanks
NEW TO THE WORLD OF MASERATI - ADVICE NEEDED
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safrane
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Welcome.
First bit of advice - call Richard Grace for a full and frank chat about what is good and less so on the 4200.
Second, more of a question how far is the commute?
By the book a 4200 should be serviced every 12 months and in addition additional items at certain miles. Budget between £700 - £1700 for these.
Cars are getting older so fewer are looked after as above esp if miles are low.
If you commute is stop-start it will shorten the life of the clutch and be aware there was a poor batch of clutch plates which collapse at c40% wear...thankfully new stock is not as prone to this.
Look out for;
Rust at the rear - under lights and boot seams
Weeping cam cover gaskets
Worn A/C pumps
Clutch wear
Worn wishbones - there are 8
Worn bushes most will need replacing now at the cars age.
Electronic glitches esp airbag lights
Any water in the oil system - oil and water pump are one unit
Worn trim in the usual places
Reverse sensors
Rattle on start up - if its longer than a second it could be variaitors but it must be dead cold to check this
Standard checks you would do on all cars.
Parts can be v.expensive although the forum can supply some, but OEM and labour rates reflect a £100k car costs.
Some may say the GS is better, but if you are on a budget the 4200 is a bargain albeit with the same running costs.
Best of luck...I had two and loved both.
First bit of advice - call Richard Grace for a full and frank chat about what is good and less so on the 4200.
Second, more of a question how far is the commute?
By the book a 4200 should be serviced every 12 months and in addition additional items at certain miles. Budget between £700 - £1700 for these.
Cars are getting older so fewer are looked after as above esp if miles are low.
If you commute is stop-start it will shorten the life of the clutch and be aware there was a poor batch of clutch plates which collapse at c40% wear...thankfully new stock is not as prone to this.
Look out for;
Rust at the rear - under lights and boot seams
Weeping cam cover gaskets
Worn A/C pumps
Clutch wear
Worn wishbones - there are 8
Worn bushes most will need replacing now at the cars age.
Electronic glitches esp airbag lights
Any water in the oil system - oil and water pump are one unit
Worn trim in the usual places
Reverse sensors
Rattle on start up - if its longer than a second it could be variaitors but it must be dead cold to check this
Standard checks you would do on all cars.
Parts can be v.expensive although the forum can supply some, but OEM and labour rates reflect a £100k car costs.
Some may say the GS is better, but if you are on a budget the 4200 is a bargain albeit with the same running costs.
Best of luck...I had two and loved both.
Vampyrebat
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Also heater matrix can be a big expense and is a common problem, check under front foot wells under mats for damp and staining. if it is damp do a tiny taste test, if it is insipid then probably need a new one. They are not massively expensive the cost is in getting to it through the dash.
As Saf said............Talk to Richard Grace in the first instance.
As Saf said............Talk to Richard Grace in the first instance.
FIFTY
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M3 will cost as much for BMW official parts especially those unique to the M model - having looked at a manual E46 M3 vs a manual 4200 in my opinion many of the costs on consumables are not far off and both cars have their own unique set of issues. Granted the BMW is slightly easier to work on inside the engine bay so labour costs will be a touch lower it still has its own stupid set of access issues, in my E46 330I Sport I had to pay to have the petrol tank dropped in order to replace corroded brake lines, 8 hours labour to replace a few quids worth of pipe!
Running cost on the 4200 is higher - motorway cruise you can expect 20-23mpg if you have a light right foot and it is flat - while the E46 M3 will do 30mpg. Also different road tax implications for different years.
Both engines like to brittle various rubber gaskets and leak oil however the 4.2 V8 in the Maserati does not burn oil at all while with the BMW you can expect 1L per 1000 miles more if you have leaks - not knocking the S54 engine in the BMW it absolutely sings revving up to 8K vs 7000 or 7500 rpm depending on which year 4200 you are looking at.
Both SMG and CC gearboxes have their issues and it really depends on how well maintained they have been over the years
I am tempted to buy one to replace my wife's Scirocco R with a E46 M3 but I think the 4200 sits in a league above the BMW. Even at their respective list prices the M3 was a bargain use every day sports coupe at >£40,000 while the Maserati Coupe was a use every day grand tourer at >£64,000 new at their current price I think they are a total bargain
Running cost on the 4200 is higher - motorway cruise you can expect 20-23mpg if you have a light right foot and it is flat - while the E46 M3 will do 30mpg. Also different road tax implications for different years.
Both engines like to brittle various rubber gaskets and leak oil however the 4.2 V8 in the Maserati does not burn oil at all while with the BMW you can expect 1L per 1000 miles more if you have leaks - not knocking the S54 engine in the BMW it absolutely sings revving up to 8K vs 7000 or 7500 rpm depending on which year 4200 you are looking at.
Both SMG and CC gearboxes have their issues and it really depends on how well maintained they have been over the years
I am tempted to buy one to replace my wife's Scirocco R with a E46 M3 but I think the 4200 sits in a league above the BMW. Even at their respective list prices the M3 was a bargain use every day sports coupe at >£40,000 while the Maserati Coupe was a use every day grand tourer at >£64,000 new at their current price I think they are a total bargain
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Gp79
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Get any perspective purchase on a ramp to properly check the underside.
They all look shiny on top but can suffer from severe rust on subframes - trust me I know first hand!
They are all old now and suffer the same problems of any car the same age but the parts are far more expensive
They all look shiny on top but can suffer from severe rust on subframes - trust me I know first hand!
They are all old now and suffer the same problems of any car the same age but the parts are far more expensive
Devonboy
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No contest as no one EVER said, from the pavement, “wow look it’s a BMW”
Talk to a specialist Mr Grace is a fine start and as you are in MK - McGraths Maserati near Harpenden for servicing and advice or Shilltech in Loughborough are both specialist independents within shouting distance.
Deep down you know you really want the Maser - else why the post? - the action plan is clear - call Dicky, find some cars to kick the tyres on, get an inspection, buy one and join the Club! Mine will be the black QP V on the other side of the M1!
Talk to a specialist Mr Grace is a fine start and as you are in MK - McGraths Maserati near Harpenden for servicing and advice or Shilltech in Loughborough are both specialist independents within shouting distance.
Deep down you know you really want the Maser - else why the post? - the action plan is clear - call Dicky, find some cars to kick the tyres on, get an inspection, buy one and join the Club! Mine will be the black QP V on the other side of the M1!
MarkMas
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FIFTY
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Yup they both suffer from rust issues.
BMW will likely have more rust to worry about especially around the arches E46 is notorious for this.
It is more likely that the E46 will have been run throughout the year while the roads are salty in winter they all have quite high millage to confirm this while 4200s are generally run less in winter - although I know plenty of owners who run theirs in winter and I use mine dry days only on local roads to give the car a run but not motorways
If the OP is going to daily theirs all through the winter then maybe a pristine example with low millage may be a bit of a waste(?) These cars don't get any worse with millage as long as the consumables have been changed they stay reliable, I have seen US models up to and over 200,000 miles... so a well kept 4200 with 80k will be cheap in the low £11-12k range about the same as a decent E46 M3 but you need to be sure that 4200 is in good shape. I know i am bias but I would seriously consider a manual as they are less complicated than CambioCorsa
Vampyrebat
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I know i am bias but I would seriously consider a manual as they are less complicated than CambioCorsa
Here we go again Shoghi!!!
Here we go again Shoghi!!!
FIFTY
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I'm just adding common sense to it!
E46's start from £6k for a dog while the bottom of the market and probably top out at 14-15k... for 4200's bottom end is £11k... 4200's in the £6-£8k range are considered parts cars right?
So either a 4200 with high-ish milage for £12k or an E46 on the upper end of the market granted with similar millage of a 4200 at that price but 80K miles is considered low for a ~15 year old M3 which should be in good shape as E90's are now starting £12k!
Lets just say if I was picking up a 4200 CC at the bottom end of the market to run as a daily I would have the F1 system and clutch checked over first along with the wishbones, bushes and heater matrix if no receipts found in the records
Don't get me wrong, my manual is no show winner, it does not have FSH and was a little rough around the edges when I first bought it with 59k miles on the clock at a shade under £15k from a dealer with a warranty back in Feb 2016... but I got it as a project not an investment or a car to enjoy briefly and sell on.
E46's start from £6k for a dog while the bottom of the market and probably top out at 14-15k... for 4200's bottom end is £11k... 4200's in the £6-£8k range are considered parts cars right?
So either a 4200 with high-ish milage for £12k or an E46 on the upper end of the market granted with similar millage of a 4200 at that price but 80K miles is considered low for a ~15 year old M3 which should be in good shape as E90's are now starting £12k!
Lets just say if I was picking up a 4200 CC at the bottom end of the market to run as a daily I would have the F1 system and clutch checked over first along with the wishbones, bushes and heater matrix if no receipts found in the records
Don't get me wrong, my manual is no show winner, it does not have FSH and was a little rough around the edges when I first bought it with 59k miles on the clock at a shade under £15k from a dealer with a warranty back in Feb 2016... but I got it as a project not an investment or a car to enjoy briefly and sell on.
Brilliant thanks all. Certainly plenty to be getting on with there. You’re right I’m thinking about the Maserati because you don’t see many about and well you only live once. I do think the E46 M3 is a proper car too but the budget draining prospects of owning a maserati with a ferrari derived engine make me a little nervous. I shall investigate done of the leads on this thread though and delve deeper. Thanks again
Andyk
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Depends what you want the car for. Everyday drive M3. Fun car to make you feel special and make you get up on a Sunday morning for a early morning drive on your favourite road... 4200..... Having had a few M3 E46 I never had an issue with any and a specialist will service them for a lot less than a Maserati. £400ish for a major service against 700/1000 for the Maserati. The Maserati was in a different league no doubt but it's a V8 Ferrari engined car and will cost more to run than the E46. But the 4200 is a very special. The E46 has one of the best Straight 6 engines and is probably one of the best M3's BMW has made. I would drive both and then make up your mind. Investigate well and I don't think you will be disappointed in either that's in your list. You'll get great advice on here for the Maserati and if you go on M3cutters forum you'll get good advice on the M3.
FIFTY
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It is more likely you will run into engine issues with the S54 in the M3 as I mentioned 1l/1000 miles oil consumption is normal and they are known to have VANOS issues (called Variators in Ferrari Maserati world)
The Ferrari derrived engine in the 4200 is probably the strongest most reliable element of the car. Parts are readily available prices are not sky high
The Ferrari derrived engine in the 4200 is probably the strongest most reliable element of the car. Parts are readily available prices are not sky high
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FIFTY
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It is a heavier car so tyres suspension and brakes will wear quicker than the Coupe.
More into the modern era of Maserati with the QPV. It is front mid engine (hence the size) making it very good handling.
I understand that the 4.2 ZF is the sweet spot for reliability/running costs but if you get a duoselect and factor in a new clutch with it being set up properly I have heard some multiple QP owners say its a great drivers car compared to the ZF
Personally if I am able to I would like to run a 4.7 QPV S or GTS along side my Coupe... maybe one day in 2021 lol
More into the modern era of Maserati with the QPV. It is front mid engine (hence the size) making it very good handling.
I understand that the 4.2 ZF is the sweet spot for reliability/running costs but if you get a duoselect and factor in a new clutch with it being set up properly I have heard some multiple QP owners say its a great drivers car compared to the ZF
Personally if I am able to I would like to run a 4.7 QPV S or GTS along side my Coupe... maybe one day in 2021 lol
philw696
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I have had two 4200 cambio corsa and can't rate them high enough.
Drove both of mine as intended which is hard and tracked them.
It helps to keep costs down if your mechanical and the Knowledge is on here.
I too have had a few M Power the same as Andy and they were good cars but the 4.2 Dry sump engine is something else.
My last one well documented on here was a Project car with a failed oil/water pump turned out so good I shipped it to NZ and ran it there for the last 3.5 years before moving to France.
One life live it.
Drove both of mine as intended which is hard and tracked them.
It helps to keep costs down if your mechanical and the Knowledge is on here.
I too have had a few M Power the same as Andy and they were good cars but the 4.2 Dry sump engine is something else.
My last one well documented on here was a Project car with a failed oil/water pump turned out so good I shipped it to NZ and ran it there for the last 3.5 years before moving to France.
One life live it.
Lavazza
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Best place for advice on the E46 M3 is Cutters M3 forum...
https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk
(Good place to look for cars too, although Munich Legends is a sound start point).
In a nutshell, look out for;
Rusty wheel arches (check for filler too)
Subframe and boot floor (very late 2005/6 cars tend to fare better and have strengthened boot floors), or check for plates being fitted by a reputable company, like Reddish.
Varioram.
Check for running in service, and also that inspection 2 services haven't been dodged by cost cutting.
Manual over SMG
Avoid modifications
(The latter 2 points are my advice anyway)
The coupé is more desirable than the cabriolet (not that there's anything wrong with them, but like for like, they are cheaper).
I just sold a superb 2006 E46 M3 manual coupé which I owned for 3 years and 20k miles and miss it already.
My car never used a drop of oil. Only thing that needed replacing was a starter motor and an ABS sensor. 26mpg average for brisk commuting on country roads.
The M3 is the better choice for a daily. Parts are readily available and an abundance of specialists.
I'd suggest spending £10k-£15k for a nice facelift car with reasonable mileage.
Don't let that stop you from going down the Maserati route as a daily, but M3 is head and Maser is heart...
Good luck.
https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk
(Good place to look for cars too, although Munich Legends is a sound start point).
In a nutshell, look out for;
Rusty wheel arches (check for filler too)
Subframe and boot floor (very late 2005/6 cars tend to fare better and have strengthened boot floors), or check for plates being fitted by a reputable company, like Reddish.
Varioram.
Check for running in service, and also that inspection 2 services haven't been dodged by cost cutting.
Manual over SMG
Avoid modifications
(The latter 2 points are my advice anyway)
The coupé is more desirable than the cabriolet (not that there's anything wrong with them, but like for like, they are cheaper).
I just sold a superb 2006 E46 M3 manual coupé which I owned for 3 years and 20k miles and miss it already.
My car never used a drop of oil. Only thing that needed replacing was a starter motor and an ABS sensor. 26mpg average for brisk commuting on country roads.
The M3 is the better choice for a daily. Parts are readily available and an abundance of specialists.
I'd suggest spending £10k-£15k for a nice facelift car with reasonable mileage.
Don't let that stop you from going down the Maserati route as a daily, but M3 is head and Maser is heart...
Good luck.
Gialllo Uno
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A friend of mine has a 22 year old son. I have been friends with the father for.....lets say more than 30 years....OK a bit longer. He doesn't care about cars......the son however loves them. Doesn't talk that much. Loves to text.......The
Kid loves BMW's for the record. A few years back I let him drive my F355 Ferrari . ...needless to say. He loves it and I am of course Uncle Mark these days. So I text him a picture of a recently aquired a 2004 Cambiocorsa Coupe. I tell him I bought it for him. ....He was seriously excited . ...I guess I am mean.....Maserati with Ferrari Motor . ....The answer is very clear to the original question! Marco
Kid loves BMW's for the record. A few years back I let him drive my F355 Ferrari . ...needless to say. He loves it and I am of course Uncle Mark these days. So I text him a picture of a recently aquired a 2004 Cambiocorsa Coupe. I tell him I bought it for him. ....He was seriously excited . ...I guess I am mean.....Maserati with Ferrari Motor . ....The answer is very clear to the original question! Marco