New Granturismo

[Zep]

Electric vehicles should come with a hand crank generator for just such situations. It would take a while to put enough charge in the batteries but at least the exercise would keep you warm at minus 7.

Plus it would be funny seeing somebody attempting to wind up their electric vehicle. A nostalgic nod to the starter crank handles of old.

Although of course some would be better than others at the cranking.

 

[spkennyuk]

Although of course some would be better than others at the cranking.

Would several broken down EV drivers in a row be a bunch of crankers ?

 

[CatmanV2]

(British thermal units anyone?)

From memory the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of a pound of water through a degree F?

C

 

[Zep]

From memory the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of a pound of water through a degree F?

C

Starting at 39F, yes.

A ton of refrigeration?

 

[Ewan]

The range of our E-Tron doesn’t seem to be effected particularly by road speed. Whether pottering around the local villages, or cruising on the motorway, the range seem to stay fairly constant.
Obviously I’ve not tried wringing it’s neck around a track, for obvious reasons, but I’d imagine that might see the range dip somewhat, just like the mpg of an ICE car.

 

[Ewan]

I see the new Tesla Plaid has a 0-60 time of 2 secs, and 400 miles of range. Not shabby.
With the advancements happening in battery technology, allowing for greater range and faster charging, it’ll soon be pretty tough to argue against EV cars being the best option for most people. But of course, they still won’t sound like a Strad in race mode.☹️

 

[bigbob]

I see the new Tesla Plaid has a 0-60 time of 2 secs, and 400 miles of range. Not shabby.
With the advancements happening in battery technology, allowing for greater range and faster charging, it’ll soon be pretty tough to argue against EV cars being the best option for most people. But of course, they still won’t sound like a Strad in race mode.☹

When a top of the range Tesla 3 is faster than a 911S at half the price then you know that ICE is in trouble. I know the Tesla looks a tad strange etc etc.

 

[cheburator]

When a top of the range Tesla 3 is faster than a 911S at half the price then you know that ICE is in trouble. I know the Tesla looks a tad strange etc etc.

I did spend a lot of time with a Tesla 3 about 2 years ago. I am sorry, but I could not give two hoots about it being quicker than a 911 in a traffic lights Grand Prix. Let's start with the design - it's awful. Totally forgetfull pastiche of classic design cues shamelessly stolen from the likes of Alfa 147, BMW 3 series and Maserati GTS. Then move onto the build quality - dust flecks in the factory fresh paint on 3 panels, orange peel straight out of Florida, which makes even BMW paint look good, panels gaps worthy of a Lada and shonky door handles at 5k miles old. Then we move on inside, fake leather, low rent vinyl, awful rough french stitching and hopeless soft touch plastics. Woe betide you if you have to repair it - the panels are made of alloy which cannot be fixed and Tesla are restricting supply to independent repair shops. Can you tell I am not a fan?

Yes, the 911 is 2x the cost and rightfully so - it just exudes quality and design integrity. Tesla was a pioneer in the world of EVs - I doff my cap to them on the drive train ideas/solutions, but effectively is just a mobile phone with 4 wheels. A dishwasher with 4 seats and luggage space. It caters to the lowest common denominator, hence it will never make it on my list...

 

[Doohickey]

I did spend a lot of time with a Tesla 3 about 2 years ago. I am sorry, but I could not give two hoots about it being quicker than a 911 in a traffic lights Grand Prix. Let's start with the design - it's awful. Totally forgetfull pastiche of classic design cues shamelessly stolen from the likes of Alfa 147, BMW 3 series and Maserati GTS. Then move onto the build quality - dust flecks in the factory fresh paint on 3 panels, orange peel straight out of Florida, which makes even BMW paint look good, panels gaps worthy of a Lada and shonky door handles at 5k miles old. Then we move on inside, fake leather, low rent vinyl, awful rough french stitching and hopeless soft touch plastics. Woe betide you if you have to repair it - the panels are made of alloy which cannot be fixed and Tesla are restricting supply to independent repair shops. Can you tell I am not a fan?

Pal of mine has a Tesla 3 Dual Motor Performance (or whatever it's called) and the first thing he did was to get the whole thing PPF'd because the paint is so poor and very thin. Once you get over the novelty of the face bending acceleration everything except the massive screen appears to have been an afterthought and it cost £60k! He got it because he can put it through his company and it costs naff all.

 

[GeoffCapes]

I did spend a lot of time with a Tesla 3 about 2 years ago. I am sorry, but I could not give two hoots about it being quicker than a 911 in a traffic lights Grand Prix. Let's start with the design - it's awful. Totally forgetfull pastiche of classic design cues shamelessly stolen from the likes of Alfa 147, BMW 3 series and Maserati GTS. Then move onto the build quality - dust flecks in the factory fresh paint on 3 panels, orange peel straight out of Florida, which makes even BMW paint look good, panels gaps worthy of a Lada and shonky door handles at 5k miles old. Then we move on inside, fake leather, low rent vinyl, awful rough french stitching and hopeless soft touch plastics. Woe betide you if you have to repair it - the panels are made of alloy which cannot be fixed and Tesla are restricting supply to independent repair shops. Can you tell I am not a fan?

Yes, the 911 is 2x the cost and rightfully so - it just exudes quality and design integrity. Tesla was a pioneer in the world of EVs - I doff my cap to them on the drive train ideas/solutions, but effectively is just a mobile phone with 4 wheels. A dishwasher with 4 seats and luggage space. It caters to the lowest common denominator, hence it will never make it on my list...

You missed the positives. It has the switches from a 2011 Mercedes, so at least something was designed properly.

 

[Felonious Crud]

Teslas look interesting but it's a ****-ton of money for something that has only utility value. For that money I want something I want.

 

[tokyomb]

We're looking at hydrogen in 9.

Not disagreeing with you, but read the following on another forum and think it summarises quite well the main challenges still to be overcome with hydrogen:

Fuel cells themselves are expensive but that is largely a product of low demand. They are fairly simple devices really. The main issues are storage and transportation.

Hydrogen is a gas and must be compressed into a liquid phase to achieve realistic volumetric energy densities. One issue with hydrogen is the pressure required to liquefy it. It's about 300bar-700bar which is about 30x-70x that of a rock hard truck tyre. This means pressure vessels must be mechanically robust (read: heavy, expensive). Manufacturers like Toyota have developed composite hydrogen fuel tanks. If you weigh a full Hydrogen tank, about 80-95% of the mass is the tank itself.

A second problem with storage is that hydrogen is an extremely small molecule and can diffuse through many materials and across tiny gaps and gaskets. This, combined with the already incredibly high pressures, makes it difficult to contain (read: expensive). This also means that hydrogen pipelines are likely to be prohibitively expensive and unpopular.

Thirdly, hydrogen is highly flammable. Hydrogen gas is very flammable and dangerous when combusted in enclosed spaces. In fact, hydrogen can combust at concentrations as low as 4% and requires very little spark to ignite. A leaky hydrogen tank in a small car could have serious consequences. Accounting for these issues adds significant cost and complexity to a vehicle.

Certainly not insurmountable - and I imagine likely to be addressed first in large commercial vehicles where batteries are probably not going to be the long term solution.

 

[GeoffCapes]

Not disagreeing with you, but read the following on another forum and think it summarises quite well the main challenges still to be overcome with hydrogen:


Certainly not insurmountable - and I imagine likely to be addressed first in large commercial vehicles where batteries are probably not going to be the long term solution.

This makes for an interesting read, and answers some of those issues.

Why the next truck you see may be a quiet, zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell rig

Nikola, Toyota and Hyundai are among the automakers pursuing hydrogen fuel cell trucks, replacing diesel rigs with quiet, zero-emission trucks.

eu.usatoday.com

I work in development of renewable projects, and we are working on some large projects in the USA.
There is a bit of a bun fight going on at the moment over who takes the power. Bitcoin miners or green hydrogen producers.
Make of that what you will.

 

[gb-gta]

Teslas look interesting but it's a ****-ton of money for something that has only utility value. For that money I want something I want.

Quite.
If I’m forced to use EV for my every day car, just sat in traffic going to work, or nipping to the shops, I’d just get the cheapest one possible. Second hand leaf for 10k or something. Why spend 60k/6-700/month on a white good?
It’s like spending 10k on a fridge or a washing machine.

Instead of 0-60 in 2 seconds they’d be better off being half the price, 800 mile range and 0-60 in 8 seconds.

 

[c4sman]

Porsche is investing heavily in efuels in a commitment to keep its existing old ICE running (that’s something Porsche prides itself if counting how many of its cars ever built are still on the road and manufacturing classic parts, unlike Maserati!).

However my recent GT purchase is linked heavily to the likely demise of the ICE regardless, it’s real, and will more than likely happen. A great engine is just something that floats my boat and no EV fake noise will ever replace that. That doesn’t mean I’m anti EV as I will happily buy one in the future as a means of transportation, but I will want the one with the best range and fastest charge and don’t give a hoot what it looks like or 0-300mph time as it will be a utility in the same way a washing machine is.

I also think that will create an issue for premium sports car manufacturers as their ability to differentiate themselves and win buys hearts over their heads will be somewhat diminished.

 

[Ewan]

I did spend a lot of time with a Tesla 3 about 2 years ago. I am sorry, but I could not give two hoots about it being quicker than a 911 in a traffic lights Grand Prix. Let's start with the design - it's awful. Totally forgetfull pastiche of classic design cues shamelessly stolen from the likes of Alfa 147, BMW 3 series and Maserati GTS. Then move onto the build quality - dust flecks in the factory fresh paint on 3 panels, orange peel straight out of Florida, which makes even BMW paint look good, panels gaps worthy of a Lada and shonky door handles at 5k miles old. Then we move on inside, fake leather, low rent vinyl, awful rough french stitching and hopeless soft touch plastics. Woe betide you if you have to repair it - the panels are made of alloy which cannot be fixed and Tesla are restricting supply to independent repair shops. Can you tell I am not a fan?

Yes, the 911 is 2x the cost and rightfully so - it just exudes quality and design integrity. Tesla was a pioneer in the world of EVs - I doff my cap to them on the drive train ideas/solutions, but effectively is just a mobile phone with 4 wheels. A dishwasher with 4 seats and luggage space. It caters to the lowest common denominator, hence it will never make it on my list...

Agreed - there is a lot to dislike about the Tesla. That's why I chose the Audi E-Tron - you get all the advantages (and disadvantages) of an EV, with all the advantages of a quality German engineered item. Okay, it's more expensive than the Tesla, but it's better built, better looking, etc. I was quite tempted by the Porsche EV, but the Audi won it on practicality and price.

 

[Ryandoc]

This thread makes me sad

 

[steamer]

I bought a base model 3 as the family run around. Have to say it was mainly because of 100% tax relief and the bik rate. I actually quite like driving it as a run about. I think all ice cars can feel jerky and a bit old hat after an ev. If you're just thinking of a car as transport, which I think most people do, then I see their place.

The paint work is bloody awful. Our panel gaps are good but some aren't. Brake pads and discs are basically new after 10k. Touch wood no faults or things falling off. No service due ever, if you choose not to. 8 years battery and drive train warranty.

Not going to a fuel station 99% of the time is much more appealing than the downside of the odd charge on a long journey. For most people, If you drive 10k miles a year you'll spend a lot more time at Shell in an ice than an ev driver will at a charging station away from home.

However, In my opinion they do only work if you mostly charge at home, Teslas charger network is the easiest and cheapest to use by a mile. But still not massively cheaper than fuel. None of the chargers we have used charge at anywhere near the headline rate. Therefore take a lot longer to charge. The range drop can be massive in the wet and cold if you try any kind of normal speed.

Most importantly though, they do not bring out the emotion of any kind of V8 let alone a Maserati. I can't see why anyone would actually feel any kind of desire for an ev. You certainly wouldn't just go out for a drive in one. Would be so boring on a track or drag strip even if they can be faster.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Oneball]

When people who make exciting ICE cars start making electric cars then they’ll be exciting.

Let’s see what Maserati can do.

 

[conaero]

An interesting question, so I did some maths.

A litre of petrol contains 9.1 kWh of energy. A petrol car burns about 1/2 a litre of petrol and hour when at idle. Petrol engines are around 35% efficient so that means that, assuming about a third of the waste energy goes to heating the cabin, around 2 kWh of energy is available to heat the cabin and if you had half a tank, say 30 litres of fuel onboard, you could last 60 hours. After 14 hours, you would still have enough fuel for 170 miles of driving, if you had the energy yourself.

For an electric car with a capacity of 82 kWh, half full, that would be around 41 kWh. Modern EVs use heat pump systems (most of them do anyway, and in the future all will) for cooling and heating, so to generate the same 2 kWh of heating would take approx 0.7 kWh in battery energy. So after 14 hours, you would have 31 kWh of battery left, or enough for 83 miles.

These numbers are quite extreme, but the electric car isn’t stranded, however it is certainly less resilient than a petrol car with current (geddit) technology. With 1/4 of a tank / battery both vehicles would probably be stranded. It will be interesting to see what the answer is in 5 years time.

Blimey have some more disaronno and don’t worry about it!