Maserati 4200 Water Radiator

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
Hello forumers, on route to last nights ACE meet I noticed that my car was pushing past 90C on the temp gauge by just a hair and the fans were vibrating the car to try and cool the car down.

I noticed it was worse with the AC on fully cold as the car would not cool down even when in motion at 50-60mph until I notched the temperature on the AC closer to the middle when I assume the flaps on the heater matrix opened and let the car release some heat into the cabin and cool the engine down.

I spoke with @conaero while at ACE and he told me to change my radiator, little bit of digging on the forums and the exploded diagrams on ES I see that 50% of the radiator is covered by the AC condensor plus the PS rads with only a few mm gap which gets clogged up with all sorts of **** from the road plus, reference: http://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/gs-or-4200-radiator-airflow-restriction.22192/

The plan is going to take the front bumper off, I am planning to remove the headlights anyway because they need a restoration on the lens and the Left hand dipped beam has a busted adjuster and is pointed at the floor - I have been informed that the adjuster can be rebuilt easily as per the F360 mechanism. So taking the bumper off is only a few extra steps - there is no chance I can do the job from underneath without removing the bumper my hands are big and I get frustrated when things don't go my way lol. I am going to use Matt's how to for removing the lights and bumper: http://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/how-to-front-bumper-removal.20397/


Anyway the drivel on my plans aside I have a question... the cheapest rads will be from ES for £262.62 + VAT so £317 plus delivery... I had a look on e-bay and there are these for sale but the saving is nominal so I am not sure if its worth not having a Maserati part over "OE" for £67 when I'm already spending that much... unless the Maserati rads are made by Ava??
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
If your getting vibration and struggling AC check your compressor pump pulley is not wobbly. It’s a common fault as the front bearing eats into the casting. Eventually it will seize and take your aux belt off rendering the car undrivable
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
The car only vibrates when the fans are on full whack and the temperature edges over 90C otherwise nothing... it does not climb beyond 91/92C certainly no where near the warning light but I can feel the car is struggling... oh and it was on a hot slip road in full on traffic

I will check with AV if he looked at the pulleys during the service... I had the aux drive checked about 18 months ago by a different place during a major and they were all OK but yes worth checking
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
I have been advised to have the rad re-cored. Then it is as good as new but a fraction of the price. For the price of the OEM one you could have a alloy rad made. Which would also be very shiny!
 

mas

Junior Member
Messages
46
I replaced my radiator a few weeks ago with a new one purchased from ES (and shipped to Sydney). I posted an article on this the other week.
The car temperature sits under 90, although I also replaced the thermostat and the radiator fan resistor too. There are a lot of leaves / flies etc.. that get jammed between the air con radiation and water radiator but the cowling gets in the way in order to get access as a quick fix.

I would not get the radiator re-cored, remember the actual radiator side sections are plastic therefore you are relying on the skill set of the radiator man to ensure he gets it right. Secondly, it's not a 5 minute job replacing the radiator so you want to get it right the first time.

The main reason I replaced my radiator as it had a minor leak. After fitting my new radiator, a few days later I looked at my old radiator leaning against the wall and I notices that the core at the bottom corner was slightly squashed, clearly some idiot had tried jacking up the car directly under the radiator. The annoying thing its difficult to back track when it occurred - Official Maserati dealers / Tyres replacement garage / etc...
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
I would not get the radiator re-cored, remember the actual radiator side sections are plastic therefore you are relying on the skill set of the radiator man to ensure he gets it right. Secondly, it's not a 5 minute job replacing the radiator so you want to get it right the first time.

I see your point, however it wasn’t a back street garage who told me this, it is a well known Ferrari / Maserati specialist. Of course you need to choose your radiator remanufacturer carefully
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
I replaced my radiator a few weeks ago with a new one purchased from ES (and shipped to Sydney). I posted an article on this the other week.
The car temperature sits under 90, although I also replaced the thermostat and the radiator fan resistor too. There are a lot of leaves / flies etc.. that get jammed between the air con radiation and water radiator but the cowling gets in the way in order to get access as a quick fix.

I would not get the radiator re-cored, remember the actual radiator side sections are plastic therefore you are relying on the skill set of the radiator man to ensure he gets it right. Secondly, it's not a 5 minute job replacing the radiator so you want to get it right the first time.

The main reason I replaced my radiator as it had a minor leak. After fitting my new radiator, a few days later I looked at my old radiator leaning against the wall and I notices that the core at the bottom corner was slightly squashed, clearly some idiot had tried jacking up the car directly under the radiator. The annoying thing its difficult to back track when it occurred - Official Maserati dealers / Tyres replacement garage / etc...

Yes I have read your article and that is why I know I cannot do it from underneath! Bumper off will be a whole lot easier therefore it is less likely for me to **** it up. I spoke with Voicey about the matter, the only part I was not sure about was how to bleed air out of the system and he explained how to do it and it is on the simpler than my old BMW's - lets face it the only thing that can really mess things up with a rads change is getting an air lock in the system or leaving a slackened off jubilee clip.

I'm more worried about refitting the front bumper lol. It will be good to get behind the bumper and clean the years of grime plus clean off any rusted bits :)

I have been advised to have the rad re-cored. Then it is as good as new but a fraction of the price. For the price of the OEM one you could have a alloy rad made. Which would also be very shiny!

Not overly keen on having it re-cored but an alloy rad would be a fantastic upgrade - I fitted one to one of my old cars and it made a good difference let alone on this sort of performance engine... problem is the lead time as I need it in the next two weeks - I guess they would have to make it custom and they would need my rad fitted to the car as a template?

Do you know anyone who can help? I can make some calls on Monday

Also do you guys know the part number for the thermostat? I cant find it on ES as I am being dense. The fan resistor has already been changed so I don't need that.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
Thanks Gregg

I have found the non-Maser branded radiator for much cheaper away from ebay at £159 - at around half the price of the OEM version it is a little more tempting so I may order this one and see how it goes. Comes with a 2 year warranty:
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/prasco/7461210
https://www.buycarparts.co.uk/maserati/coupe/122558/10203/radiator-parts
https://www.euspares.co.uk/parts/prasco/7461210

Made some calls for a aluminium version one company has a local shop with a manufacturing plant in the midlands they can turn it around fast but they are about to go into their summer shutdown for 2 weeks which closes that avenue and another said I need to order 20no rads for them to do it which I am sure to shift on here but again the time factor does not allow it so I am going to have to go with a stock item.

Edit: ES came back to me and said I can add one onto an order I have in with them at the moment and not have to pay postage so 262 + VAT or they are offering me a used one for half that. While I tend not to scrimp on parts my budget is a little stretched at the moment with a wedding and honeymoon (...to Italy in the car) on the horizon so I'm trying to balance this and I think the new Prasco AVA part for £160 is the best option for the price and availability. Maybe if I have the car in 4-5 years I will replace with with an aluminium one.
 
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Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
That none branded one is a good find.
I’d always fit new, a second hand one could be waiting to leak, full of sediment etc.
If you’re using the 4200 to go honeymoon I’d make sure it’s 100%, not worth the risk for £100 ish
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
Yeah... I'm getting the non branded one at £160 incl VAT

I was not considering a used one at any point but if I was since mine isn't leaking it would be less risky to remove mine and clean it vs getting a used one with an unknown history.

Anyways I'll order it up tonight
 
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FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
It arrived in the post a short while ago. Seems decent only difference I can see is that it is sprayed black which is probably better than the standard silver because it will blend in with the black shrouding. Also the price has gone up from 160 to 235+ so I got a good deal!

I would still like a shiny custom alloy one so I am going to keep my old one with the intention to send it off to be copied. I'll probably get the alloy one fitted when I put it into the body shop in a year or two for some fresh paint. As for this one I am waiting for ES to send me the thermostat and temperature sensor before I start taking the car apart

Photos attached if anyone is interested 20180726_140121.jpg20180726_140401.jpg20180726_140515.jpg20180726_140623.jpg20180726_140723.jpg
 
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Masera

Member
Messages
144
Fernando, how is that radiator working out? I hit a pothole yesterday and now need to replace mine. Also trying to decide if I should pull the freshly painted bumper off for the removal and install.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
@Masera Eurospares will have the new thermostat and temp sensor to me by Wednesday (or at least this week hopefully) along with a load of other odds and sods that I have needed for a while. I had a busy weekend with family and friends but spent some time on Saturday getting my retrofit exhaust valve kit to work along with pulling the grille and the headlights out (which I will tidy up). I do not want to completely dismantle the front end until I get the dispatch notice... assuming it goes to plan I will have to bumper off over a couple of evenings this week and I will fit the rads, thermostat and temp sensor on the weekend

This is a photo I took after I took one headlight out, poor thing has a black eye and no teeth lol

20180728_174125.jpg

From what I have read you can take longer struggling with getting it done from underneath than including removing then reinstalling the bumper... but it is possible, probably more so with the car on a lift than on your drive.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
Two bits of advice FIFTY...tape along the wing where it meets the bumper, you will scratch the wings refitting it and the wing to bumper clamps, with the long bracket (forward most one from memory) one is a lefthand thread. Also, you can dent the wing from the inside outwards when you undo them as the bracket swings round and levers the wing.

You'll see what I mean when you get in there.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
Thanks for that, I already ordered the blue 3m bodyshop tape from e-bay and spotted the left hand thread on your how-to (will need to follow that step by step so I don't forget in the moment) but not that it is possible to dent the wing so I will need to watch for that.

From that point the radiator and thermostat seem fairly straight forward. Voicey suggested to do the temp sensor from the wheel arch. There is some information about but any pointers will be appreciated.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
From memory the rad can be slid out the bottom so you will need to jack the car up quite far to achieve this. It makes it simpler in the long run as you dont have to remove the other rads. The bolts to the rad cowling are a fiddle too, some sort of magnetic rod will help you here.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
I changed the rads thermostat and temperature sensor today... it wasn't hard but it took some time fighting with rusted fixings.

The top radiator mounts one side has rusted on while the otherside sheared off so I need new ones... bottom ones were fine and I transfered the lower bushes over from the old rads with no problem. Will need to order these from meridien modena on Monday along with the lower mounts for the air box which just fell on the floor as I pulled the MAF apart (not impressed as I paid a so called specialist to rebuild all of that)

Most of the lower bolts holding the plastic cowling on were also rusted and fell to bits so will replace with stainless.

Getting the old rads out wasn't that hard with the fan out. I did not remove the plastc cowl nor did I remove/disconnect the ps or ac lines - I only slackened the mount holding the ps hardline along the front of the engine. Putting the new rads in was somehow easier probably because I did not have the top mounts fitted!

Looks like the old rads was replaced at some point maybe with a second hand unit as it wasn't very dirty and had the part number hand written on the side in white pen

Filled the system up with blue antifreeze mixed 50/50 with deionised water from eurocarparts. I vented the heads first then turned on the engine waited for it to reach temperature and the level to drop (open thermostat)... I swear it took 20 minutes which is an improvement as it would usually hit 90c in about 3 minutes sitting on the drive even in winter

Next job is to rebuild (and install the top mounts there should be enough space to do it from above hopefully without removing the fan)... I might miss festival italia at this rate but as long as the car is tip top for italy then it's worth it
 
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philw696

Member
Messages
25,119
Good work and a shame to read about others poor work but your getting her sorted and you can't beat a trip to Italy :)