Manual Conversion/V12/Twin Turbo for the Granturismo?

[TheYoungconnoisseur]

So like most of you I really enjoy the GT-S... I had my first GT-S at the same time I had a Bentley CGT both of which were daily drivers, I obviously liked the Maser so much I bought another one and its been my DD and road trips to and fro my FL home for the last 8mo or so.

Anyways.... Car runs great, its the right color combos and everything, its THE maser of maser's IMO but I feel like I should either sell it or do something like a 6speed manual conversion or V12 or something. Either put some work into it and make it a "keep forever" car or sell it and start driving the vanquish more and get some other cars i've always wanted but never had (cheap stuff like an XJR, early M5, 190SL, 60's veto... since I've had most exotics)

I know the F1 is the 599 gearbox which is a transaxle but the zf I have is in the normal spot, I would imagine an adapter plate and some american transmission would bolt right up and just have to work out the pedal box and the interior trimming would be the biggest issue other than possibly the ECU since the car automatically shifts 1k rpm early idk what it would do or think if the gearbox TCU were to be "missing"

At the same time if it were to be manual swapped id put in the 4.2 diff for the lower gearing.
The twin turbo would be the easiest of the three options I believe since there is ample room for everything and making the turbo manifolds isn't a huge ordeal.

The v12 swap would obviously be the largest project and I would plan on offsetting the cost by selling the current drivetrain for about 15k and I've found nice 599 motors for approx the same.


Thoughts?


I don't want a race car but I think a gated 6 speed and 10% lower final drive would be bliss in this car. Of course we have all said in the back of our minds we would have paid another 50k if it came with the 599 motor as an option at the factory.

all this has spurred over the last month as Id like to do a custom wrap, lower the rear 2in and front .5in put spacers or new wheels on and doing the math its a horrible investment where id rather have something totally unique

Am I crazy? Or have I just driven and owned too many cars and now I need hybrid frankenstein cars?

 

[MrPea]

Wow! Well if you're happy to throw the required cash at a project that won't pay you back (financially at least) then go have some fun! Modding trashes value.

But... if you can successfully pull off your aesthetic conversion then why not match it with something crazy under the skin? You're a braver man than many of us.
Making a manual gearbox version sounds enviable. Swapping for V12... just promise it'll sound at least as good as an uncorked Stradale. And you're right, had Maserati offered a factory V12, who of us would complain about our cars sounding like the MC12?

One rule of you do go ahead... photo document the journey and post it up so we can watch.

 

[Wack61]

Selling the current drivetrain for 15k might be your first problem , look on eBay for completed listings for Maserati engines, to say the market is thin is an understatement

 

[TheYoungconnoisseur]

Bare engine I've seen for the past few years have been 10k+. Add all acc, Ecu, trans & tcu should be 15k for the complete system, 10k at the absolute very least. If everyone thinks a motor is worth like 5k then don't ever bother servicing it, just oil changes until it blows then buy a new one.

 

[CatmanV2]

Bare engine I've seen for the past few years have been 10k+. Add all acc, Ecu, trans & tcu should be 15k for the complete system, 10k at the absolute very least. If everyone thinks a motor is worth like 5k then don't ever bother servicing it, just oil changes until it blows then buy a new one.

You are, I fear, confusing asking prices with what they actually sell for. If they sell.

C

 

[voicey]

I have been involved in a number of conversions from F1 to manual and more recently have helped try to get a Scuderia superfast gearbox working in a normal F430. Your biggest problem is going to be the electrics. It would be relatively trivial to take the F1 system off a GT-S and install an manual shifter mechanism to the existing gearbox. However, the engine wont start and you'll need to do some pretty funky tricks to get the car to run.

 

[Felonious Crud]

The V12 idea sounds immense, but personally I'd get one that someone else made earlier. A 599 would be a fine alternative to the GTS, assuming you can live without the rear seats.

 

[Contigo]

I'm all for modding cars but the GTS is perfectly mated to the MC Shift box!

 

[m1980k]

I'm all for modding cars but the GTS is perfectly mated to the MC Shift box!

I agree. I think small, light sports cars need a manual shift. But an F1 box makes much more sense on bigger, more powerful cars. Mating the 599 engine with a gearbox that neither belongs to the GTS nor 599 seems like an extra level of complexity that you don't want...

Forced induction is the most sensible option, but far less interesting than an engine swap. I am a fan of engine swaps but this would be nothing like substituting one V8 for another in a muscle car. I think you would need VERY deep pockets.

 

[m1980k]

Mating the 599 engine with a gearbox that neither belongs to the GTS nor 599 seems like an extra level of complexity that you don't want...

Although, thinking about it, the manual box was available as a special order on the 599, so that option might be a lot easier than the F1 for F1 swap that Voicey refers to.

 

[Wack61]

You are, I fear, confusing asking prices with what they actually sell for. If they sell.

C

Sopranostu told me he has loads of engines , it's the only bit of the car that doesn't sell , I've seen 4.7 engines on eBay not sell at 4k so even that is negotiable

 

[CatmanV2]

Sopranostu told me he has loads of engines , it's the only bit of the car that doesn't sell , I've seen 4.7 engines on eBay not sell at 4k so even that is negotiable

Figures. While the 'run it until it blows' may make sense on the face of it, I suspect the labour for a full swap is 'quite a bit'

Plus, of course, they just don't blow up, so why would anyone buy one?

4.2 dry sump hydrolock issues aside, and when did we hear the last one of those?

C

 

[mjheathcote]

4.2 dry sump hydrolock issues aside, and when did we hear the last one of those?

C

A while, probably as the cars get older less are daily drivers, so less likely to face a monsoon on the way home from work!

Engine swops are fine on older cars.
Shoving a modern engine in a 60's muscle car is 'easier' because the muscle car has no fancy electrics to stop it running.
Doing the same on a modern car, as said, rather you than me!

 

[ChrisQP09]

I would say your best bet is to collaborate with a major tuning/aftermarket company.

 

[TheYoungconnoisseur]

I was thinking about the major obstacles and if the electronics is intact the major issue, one of the things in the bike world for speed limiters and other emissions/electronics issues was just to simply fool it into think it was in 5th gear 100% of the time. If the car thinks its in a specific gear the entire time it doesn't matter if your shifting manually and going backwards or doing 180mph, to the engine its still running the same programs as if you were lugging along at 27mph.

If I had unlimited funds I would certainly just leave this alone and have more cars. However, I do have some budget and I think as close as it is to perfect, and being on my second one as there just wasn't anything else I wanted... perhaps I should go for it, It doesn't need more power, it just needs a manual trans and the 4.2 final drive and no catalytic converters to be given an entirely new, above and beyond character. Its the long ratios, early lazy, auto shift at 6800 that make it feel relaxed and gentlemanly in acceleration.

Im even more seriously considering converting my vanquish to manual, which still utilizes the same gearbox just replaces the electrohydraluics with traditional parts and pedal box/interior bits.
(At the same time that car could use 10% lower FD, even with the 520hp flash even tho it pulls relentlessly compared to the GTS)




after all.... people are putting twin turbo v8's into mini coopers, two v6 engines into hatchbacks to run each axel... what I'm talking about isn't pie in the sky witchcraft voodoo conversions...

 

[Wack61]

It sounds to me like you need to sell them both and buy one car you can live with rather than spending $$$ and possibly limiting your market come sale time

People generally don't like modified cars because if it goes wrong the info to fix it isn't in any manual

 

[ChrisQP09]

it sounds to me like you need to sell them both and buy one car you can live with rather than spending $$$ and possibly limiting your market come sale time

people generally don't like modified cars because if it goes wrong the info to fix it isn't in any manual

this

 

[m1980k]

A GTS with freer flowing exhaust, ECU remap and FD DBW would be a 500bhp+ car with sharper throttle response and perhaps more satisfying gearshifts. Wouldn't that be close to what you want? (BTW do you have an auto car or MS Shift?)

 

[conaero]

Having tested with Dan and his 505HP modified GTS against my stock one, due to the weight, I feel you need a sizeable increase in HP to make a noticeable difference as there were none in our tests.

 

[m1980k]

Having tested with Dan and his 505HP modified GTS against my stock one, due to the weight, I feel you need a sizeable increase in HP to make a noticeable difference as there were none in our tests.

Interesting. Drew's old thread about his QP remap suggests he had much more favourable results. Maybe the GTS's response is a bit less lazy to start with?