Joining the electric car club

[mjheathcote]

Mike, you currently pay tax on the fuel purchased, and then claim the tax back on business mileage. What fuel you buy, or where from, maters not. So, whether you buy the electricity from your home supply, or buy petrol from the local BP garage (for example), makes no difference.
With the charging apps, the amount of electricity you put in the car, and it’s cost, is all logged automatically, ready to send to your accountants team. Simple.

90% of electric car sales are as company car purchases. I think that says it all.

With the fuel, I buy it through a fuel card, and what I buy is then put on my p11d as a BIK, which costs me therefore 40%.
At the moment, if I had an EV or hybrid, the cost of any electricity would cost me 100% not 40%, as I have to buy it, not my employer buying it.
There would also be no benefit to me having an EV or hybrid being opted out, apart from the increased fuel economy.

 

[alfatwo]

So what happens to peasants like us who pay cash every few years on second hand cars...
Ewan, carful what you say mate!

Dave

 

[Zep]

With the fuel, I buy it through a fuel card, and what I buy is then put on my p11d as a BIK, which costs me therefore 40%.
At the moment, if I had an EV or hybrid, the cost of any electricity would cost me 100% not 40%, as I have to buy it, not my employer buying it.
There would also be no benefit to me having an EV or hybrid being opted out, apart from the increased fuel economy.

Fair point, although I assume you can get relief on the fuel (electricity) for business use.

You will get 30 odd miles for about £1 with a hybrid, which is about 30% of the petrol cost. I know you like a BM, and I can tell you that a 330e will edge a 335d on acceleration U.K. to silly speeds, so there are few downsides.

 

[Ewan]

Mike - Your employer would buy the fuel, whether it’s electricity or petrol/diesel - the tax man doesn’t differentiate.

 

[Ewan]

So what happens to peasants like us who pay cash every few years on second hand cars...
Ewan, carful what you say mate!

Er...nothing happens. Other than the number of second hand hybrids and EV’s to choose from will increase. And of course, they’ll still be cheaper to run (in terms of fuel costs).

 

[Ewan]

Ewan - is there a service schedule to follow? If so, what bits need servicing when?

Brakes are about it. But even then it’s rare, as you use motor/regenerative braking rather than pad/disc braking much of the time. No oil or oil filter. No air filter. No spark plugs. No coil packs. No lambda sensors. No cambelt. No water or fuel pump. Etc.

 

[Zep]

Brakes are about it. But even then it’s rare, as you use motor/regenerative braking rather than pad/disc braking much of the time. No oil or oil filter. No air filter. No spark plugs. No coil packs. No lambda sensors. No cambelt. No water or fuel pump. Etc.

No horrible bills and nothing to talk about on the internet

Although, inexplicably, my hybrid has the same service interval as the pure IC car, despite nearly half of that distance being done under electric power alone.

 

[mjheathcote]

Fair point, although I assume you can get relief on the fuel (electricity) for business use.

You will get 30 odd miles for about £1 with a hybrid, which is about 30% of the petrol cost. I know you like a BM, and I can tell you that a 330e will edge a 335d on acceleration U.K. to silly speeds, so there are few downsides.

The relief on 'electric fuel' for business usage charging at home I've honestly no idea how it works (if at all) or measured.
I know if you have a plug in at work I believe you get 'charged' (!) this as a BIK, but as this isn't an option for me, what do you do when at home?
What do those that have ev/hybrids as company cars, do they avoid charging at home because it costs them, and only charge at work or via a charging network that is charged back to the company?
Okay if the car is a perk and the mileage is all private, but if the mileage is business you don't want to be paying it on your home electricity bill, unless you can claim a pence per mile for the business mileage like some do with normal ICE cars.
That's okay, but the way it works for me means that my private mileage is effectively free that would not be the case if just pence per business mile is paid, even with my M140i averaging long term 34 mpg.

 

[alfatwo]

Er...nothing happens. Other than the number of second hand hybrids and EV’s to choose from will increase. And of course, they’ll still be cheaper to run (in terms of fuel costs).

Were not talking hybrids, you don't ever understand, Most poeple

Er...nothing happens. Other than the number of second hand hybrids and EV’s to choose from will increase. And of course, they’ll still be cheaper to run (in terms of fuel costs).

Be careful what you ask for Ewan!

Dave

 

[mjheathcote]

Mike - Your employer would buy the fuel, whether it’s electricity or petrol/diesel - the tax man doesn’t differentiate.

I get that, but how can my employer buy my electricity when charging at home?

 

[Ewan]

The fact that you charge at home makes no difference. You still put the bill in and claim it back, just as the case with petrol/diesel. Your home charger gives you the bill, via the app, separately from the power you use to boil your kettle, etc, so it’s the same as having a fuel receipt from a garage. I think you may be trying to find a problem that isn’t there!

 

[Ewan]

Were not talking hybrids, you don't ever understand, Most poeple

Be careful what you ask for Ewan!

Dave

Sorry Dave, you’ve lost me. What’s the question?

 

[alfatwo]

The fact that you charge at home makes no difference. You still put the bill in and claim it back, just as the case with petrol/diesel. Your home charger gives you the bill, via the app, separately from the power you use to boil your kettle, etc, so it’s the same as having a fuel receipt from a garage. I think you may be trying to find a problem that isn’t there!

Ok Ewan, explain how could a so called pensioner as you say could claim it back?
Your talking bollox mate!
Dave

 

[mjheathcote]

The fact that you charge at home makes no difference. You still put the bill in and claim it back, just as the case with petrol/diesel. Your home charger gives you the bill, via the app, separately from the power you use to boil your kettle, etc, so it’s the same as having a fuel receipt from a garage. I think you may be trying to find a problem that isn’t there!

But I don't put the bill in.
My fuel is paid via a fuel card that is charged directly to my employer.
Yes I guess I could pay it, pass it to my employer, they pay me back, and what they pay me back goes down as BIK, like presently with the fuel card.
However that would never happen as the paperwork and administration would be too much for the number of employees involved.

 

[mjheathcote]

Ok Ewan, explain how could a so called pensioner as you say could claim it back?
Your talking bollox mate!
Dave

Dave it's not bollox, it's all to do with using a car for business mileage and claiming tax back from the taxman for doing so.
If it's for private usage nothing can be claimed back.

 

[Zep]

But I don't put the bill in.
My fuel is paid via a fuel card that is charged directly to my employer.
Yes I guess I could pay it, pass it to my employer, they pay me back, and what they pay me back goes down as BIK, like presently with the fuel card.
However that would never happen as the paperwork and administration would be too much for the number of employees involved.

I’m with you, I don’t meter the power I use to recharge. In short, the power I use is much, much cheaper than if I didn’t charge and used petrol (plus other benefits like not scraping the screen as it warms up before I leave), so I take it on the chin. I don’t take private fuel so I avoid the tax on that (about £2k p.a.) because 90% of the private trips I do are electric only.

I also pay for fuel with a fuel card. Business mileage is deducted from total mileage and I pay the percentage of private miles from the total fuel cost. But that cost is so much less than before I am still much better off. The worst it has been since I got it is £70 for a month, about 1100 private miles.

If I opted out I’m not sure it would work out as well, so for now I am better off in the scheme.

I’ve just upgraded from a 330e saloon to a Touring (delivered in March) which, due to reg year is £20 a month cheaper on tax, so it gets better.

 

[mjheathcote]

I’m with you, I don’t meter the power I use to recharge. In short, the power I use is much, much cheaper than if I didn’t charge and used petrol (plus other benefits like not scraping the screen as it warms up before I leave), so I take it on the chin. I don’t take private fuel so I avoid the tax on that (about £2k p.a.) because 90% of the private trips I do are electric only.

I also pay for fuel with a fuel card. Business mileage is deducted from total mileage and I pay the percentage of private miles from the total fuel cost. But that cost is so much less than before I am still much better off. The worst it has been since I got it is £70 for a month, about 1100 private miles.

If I opted out I’m not sure it would work out as well, so for now I am better off in the scheme.

I’ve just upgraded from a 330e saloon to a Touring (delivered in March) which, due to reg year is £20 a month cheaper on tax, so it gets better.

I was the same as you with my previous employer. Had a fuel card but paid back the company every month my private mileage at the government rate, was about 11p a mile for a sub 2lt diesel 3 years ago.
Present employer pushed the opted out option.
Extra cash to run your own car.
No company car tax to pay.
Actually get more tax back than it costs you BIK for the fuel used. This therefore covers for your private miles plus running costs.
For example my M140i costs me effectively 6.5p per mile in fuel, but for the first 10,000 miles business mileage I get 18p back, so 11.5p extra per business mile. Thus reduces to 3.5p extra once above 10,000 miles.
You do have the advantage of then driving what you want, no way could you have a M140i as a company car the normal way, the BIK tax would kill you!
In the 3 years its worked out for me well doing on average 15K business miles a year. I do bugger all private miles based from home in it.
If I cashed it in, I'd also will have made about £5k profit on the car over the 3 years. This being the difference from what I will have paid, via extra income (after tax) buying it, to what its currently worth.
However this only being possible buying 1 year old, not brand new.

 

[Zep]

I was the same as you with my previous employer. Had a fuel card but paid back the company every month my private mileage at the government rate, was about 11p a mile for a sub 2lt diesel 3 years ago.
Present employer pushed the opted out option.
Extra cash to run your own car.
No company car tax to pay.
Actually get more tax back than it costs you BIK for the fuel used. This therefore covers for your private miles plus running costs.
For example my M140i costs me effectively 6.5p per mile in fuel, but for the first 10,000 miles business mileage I get 18p back, so 11.5p extra per business mile. Thus reduces to 3.5p extra once above 10,000 miles.
You do have the advantage of then driving what you want, no way could you have a M140i as a company car the normal way, the BIK tax would kill you!
In the 3 years its worked out for me well doing on average 15K business miles a year. I do bugger all private miles based from home in it.
If I cashed it in, I'd also will have made about £5k profit on the car over the 3 years. This being the difference from what I will have paid, via extra income (after tax) buying it, to what its currently worth.
However this only being possible buying 1 year old, not brand new.

I did the same for years, with a helpful employer letting me run whatever age car I wanted.

To give some context, a 330e M-sport Touring with a decent spec is over £45k list. But BIK is 10% vs 36% for a petrol only 1 series so it it way better even if a hot 1er is £7-8k less list.

I reckon my p/mile is around 3-4p so even against a 140i with the same tax benefit it would be better as I see they are holding their value very well.

It is of course horses for courses. Apparently, if it’s your own car, you can squeeze 400+ total bhp out of them too, which, given the instant torque from the leccy, is probably quite interesting.

 

[rockits]

I get use of my Outlander PHEV as work vehicle only but still charge it at home. For the amount it costs I haven't bothered to claim it back as it is hardly worth the time and admin. Might do an end of year single claim though as I shouldn't really pay it. However my company is only very small and I'm 100% shareholder and sole director so the benefit is lessened then maybe a normal PAYE employee of a larger company.

As Ewan says though you should still claim it and just extract the data from the charger app.

It does highlight some issues though that will be worse if you had two cars maybe sharing the same charger. Not sure if it knows what car it is or if the car knows where it is charging. I suspect some issues and changes will be implemented over time.

 

[Felonious Crud]

Interestingly (well, possibly) it looks as though the tax allowance on privately owned e-vehicles driven for business use is 4p per mile. The IC mileage rate is 45p per mile. Whilst there's sense for me in continuing to run a petrol-drinking private car and offsetting the business miles against my tax bill, there would be no sense at all in owning an EV if I did much business mileage. As far as I can see, pure EVs only make tax sense from a tax perspective if they're a company-owned / leased car. Which is, of course, the scenario we're talking about anyway... I was just curious and thought I'd look.

Hybrid EV tax allowances are calculated as per an ICE car.