Holiday let in Italy- any advice?

[allandwf]

All about peace and quiet and the view for me.

 

[Scaf]

All about peace and quiet and the view for me.

I don’t think you will get any arguments about how beautiful and relaxing Italy - that view is certainly lovely.

 

[Mr.Cambio]

Great to read your reviews, i need to answer to the negative points i read. South Italy, Sicily included, is not known for its safety. In general south and north Italy are two different worlds. So when it comes to, "why the house was robbed several times", the answer is 'searching for a house was not accurate", or maybe the buyer did not on count the security fact, but only how cheap he could buy a house.
Second comment is the sale price and why people cannot make more profit after five years of re-selling it: :Let me remind you that Italy, Greece, Portugal, Spain etc have been through financial trouble, which means that also real estate was affected. A house that in 2010 costed 350000 euros, now it costs 180000. Europe overall faces this problem. Even in Munich, germany, prices at the moment are extremely high. Have patience to see how they will drop in 5 years.
As a professional in the construction industry i would say that real estate makes circles, every xx years houses (or industrial) can pick up or drop down. So, every time it has to come to the right time to sell or buy.
On the other hand, under no circumstance i would take the opinion of the accountant. They all the time tell you the negative aspect and besides it's not everything about money and profit.Personally i would buy a house, than rent. At the end of the day, or better at the end of our life, we will have something that was the result of our work. Cash in the bank is not to be seen in flesh, they're only numbers on a piece of paper.
If anyone needs info about a house at the place where i live, i would be happy to help.

 

[jonny]

Yes and no. You'd be an idiot to buy in Europe without proper advice, whether that be accountant or lawyer or both. In France, as a minor example, if you are a couple you can buy a property "en tontine" which allows some of the crazy inheritance tax rules to be avoided. And you'll definitely need a lawyer to help with that. Each country has its own bonkers rules so best advice is don't do it unadvised or on the cheap!

 

[cheshiremaserati]

Great to read your reviews, i need to answer to the negative points i read. South Italy, Sicily included, is not known for its safety. In general south and north Italy are two different worlds. So when it comes to, "why the house was robbed several times", the answer is 'searching for a house was not accurate", or maybe the buyer did not on count the security fact, but only how cheap he could buy a house.
Second comment is the sale price and why people cannot make more profit after five years of re-selling it: :Let me remind you that Italy, Greece, Portugal, Spain etc have been through financial trouble, which means that also real estate was affected. A house that in 2010 costed 350000 euros, now it costs 180000. Europe overall faces this problem. Even in Munich, germany, prices at the moment are extremely high. Have patience to see how they will drop in 5 years.
As a professional in the construction industry i would say that real estate makes circles, every xx years houses (or industrial) can pick up or drop down. So, every time it has to come to the right time to sell or buy.
On the other hand, under no circumstance i would take the opinion of the accountant. They all the time tell you the negative aspect and besides it's not everything about money and profit.Personally i would buy a house, than rent. At the end of the day, or better at the end of our life, we will have something that was the result of our work. Cash in the bank is not to be seen in flesh, they're only numbers on a piece of paper.
If anyone needs info about a house at the place where i live, i would be happy to help.

I could not agree at any level with your post. Anyone buying in Europe without seeking proper independent advice from an accountant and a lawyer and considering Estate Planning implications for a second property (tax, inheritance tax in UK on a second death, inheritance tax rules in the country in Europe) would have to have their head looked at by a brain surgeon or psychiatrist

 

[sionie1]

Great to read your reviews, i need to answer to the negative points i read. South Italy, Sicily included, is not known for its safety. In general south and north Italy are two different worlds. So when it comes to, "why the house was robbed several times", the answer is 'searching for a house was not accurate", or maybe the buyer did not on count the security fact, but only how cheap he could buy a house.
Second comment is the sale price and why people cannot make more profit after five years of re-selling it: :Let me remind you that Italy, Greece, Portugal, Spain etc have been through financial trouble, which means that also real estate was affected. A house that in 2010 costed 350000 euros, now it costs 180000. Europe overall faces this problem. Even in Munich, germany, prices at the moment are extremely high. Have patience to see how they will drop in 5 years.
As a professional in the construction industry i would say that real estate makes circles, every xx years houses (or industrial) can pick up or drop down. So, every time it has to come to the right time to sell or buy.
On the other hand, under no circumstance i would take the opinion of the accountant. They all the time tell you the negative aspect and besides it's not everything about money and profit.Personally i would buy a house, than rent. At the end of the day, or better at the end of our life, we will have something that was the result of our work. Cash in the bank is not to be seen in flesh, they're only numbers on a piece of paper.
If anyone needs info about a house at the place where i live, i would be happy to help.

Interesting reply and makes sense to some degree. Other factors for a 2nd property such as tax etc should be covered as well. I’m more interested in letting it when I’m not there thus treating it as a business, but clearly lots to think about before any purchase. Where do you live?

 

[P R]

We have a place in a quiet hilltop village between Rome and Naples. We dont rent it out though, too much hassle. And thats with family (plenty of it) living in the same village. Their help was invaluable in getting the place finished (we bought a half built house). I dont think Id like to do any major works there unless 1. You know someone there or 2. You can spend a lot of time there getting it sorted...

 

[Mr.Cambio]

I could not agree at any level with your post. Anyone buying in Europe without seeking proper independent advice from an accountant and a lawyer and considering Estate Planning implications for a second property (tax, inheritance tax in UK on a second death, inheritance tax rules in the country in Europe) would have to have their head looked at by a brain surgeon or psychiatrist

Let me explain in order for you to understand: I did not say you don't need an accountant on the destination place (Italy, for example), i just said that accountants or tax people (in homeland) always try to disgust moves outside the land, because they do not know about the laws in other lands. A lawyer is necessary in the destination country, but you need first to make your own inspection. Internet and getting in contact straight with the local public services will give some initial answers. Please save your psychiatrist for other purpose.

 

[cheshiremaserati]

Let me explain so that you understand:

An accountant in the destination place is not required.

An accountant in the residence country is required as he will be (should be?) familiar with (in this instance) the UK tax and inheritance laws. He/she should be either ACCA or ICAEW qualified which means she is a professional and not some clerk who worked in an accountant's office for many years and set up on his/her own doing private client work such as tax returns, but cannot advise or be up-to-date on the plethora of constantly changing Tax Laws in the UK.

A solicitor in the country of residence is required as well as in the destination place - for two entirely different but important reasons.

1. The solicitor in UK advises on Estate Planning in one's lifetime and upon death(working closely with an accountant on the financials) - Inheritance Tax planning, pros and cons of setting up Wills with Trusts and tax implications of Trusts in lifetime as well as on death, considering severing joint tenancy in the UK property into Tenants in Common (perhaps same for the destination property - but seeks advice from destination lawyer or abogado). There may be a consideration to purchase the foreign asset under a company structure to mitigate tax implications in the destination and in the UK.

2. The destination lawyer must be involved (among other things) for land search, ensuring that the seller owns the Title to the land and property, that they don't intend to build an autopista through what is currently the swimming pool or a new airport nearby etc. He also oversees funding and raising the finances wit the UK accountant/lawyer and transfer to the vendor of funds at the correct moment etc. So he too is very important in the destination - but must be chosen independently and NEVER EVER accept the lawyer put forward by the Agent acting on behalf of the vendor.

A note about translation. An independent lawyer will have documents independently translated into contracts where the translations are both valid and reliable. Validity and reliability of translation are different criteria but very important. My daughter is fluent in French, German, Spanish at Degree level in the UK (read/write and speak) and self-taught Italian. She highlighted many inaccuracies in translated documents when she first worked for a languages translation firm. Carefully phrased wording on a contract that has no loopholes in interpretation is the aim of a good translator and to advise on appropriate changes to wording in the local language to remove or avoid interpretation loopholes. The translator must be commissioned to work solely in your interest. Hence even though the agent or solicitor prepares translated contracts and Bill of Sale, your own translator must be used to advise and act solely for you.

Now anyone who does not follow this is likely to end up on TV consumer shows crying how they got ripped off in a surge of an emotional buy - they used their heart not their head and have only themselves to blame. But crying on the shoulder of a Psychiatrist may have some temporary comfort - he is trained to make you feel nice by asking "now how long have you had this urge to purchase a dream property in a foreign land where you know nothing about the laws and don't speak the language?"

And for language, I also include the USA (think Florida as I did in the 1990's boom for Villas near DisneyWorld). I think it was Oscar Wilde who once said of the US and the UK:
"Two great Nations divided by a common language"

And how right he was. My daughter is in the US and theirs is a peculiar language - or should that just be "a very different language?"
"Right"
Wrong
No
Yes?
"Right"?
No, Yes.

 

[Navcorr]

My daughter is in the US and theirs is a peculiar language - or should that just be "a very different language?"
"Right"
Wrong
No
Yes?
"Right"?
No, Yes.

Universal advise applying to most women!
Oh, you mean Americans - my mistake

 

[cheshiremaserati]

Universal advise applying to most women!
Oh, you mean Americans - my mistake

The give-away is in the use of the word "theirs" is a peculiar language, hence its not my daughter, but the US folk.
Yee-Haah

 

[lifes2short]

don't think there's any dispute that you need to use legals and consider tax implications with any investment property purchase, whether here or abroad, the problem is after you've bought the thing in southern Italy and/or sicily. My father built in the early 60's and still owns his house in southern Italy and then spent 200k extending and renovating it about 10 years ago, now worth probably no more than 120k. Luckily he's well known out there and have family out there to look after it as well, however, if you are green and not switched on you will be shafted by Italian trades, agents etc and not to mention the big risk of burglary and damage if left vacant for lengthy periods, which does happen

 

[Needamaser]

My pal found out eventually the damage and theft was being caused by the former owners and their family who still lived in the village.
They didn't like the fact he was doing a lot of the work himself or with pals going over to help rather than using local trades amongst other issues.
They were very nice to him to his face when he was there but within days of him leaving they were breaking in again.
Ended up the previous owners bought it back for half of what he paid them. But that is a VERY short summary of the issues.
He was originally going to buy in the North but prices were so attractive further South he changed his mind.
He also had issues with getting there easily. North would have opened up many more options. As a result he didnt go as often as he planned.

 

[allandwf]

I've had mine rewired, used the locals, although I could have done the majority myself, I would struggle to get it signed off. I didn't mind using them. They were thoroughly professional, started 07:30 each day, lunch 12:30 - 14:00 and worked until 18:30. No tea breaks, no smoke breaks. I would struggle to get UK tradesmen like that. You really need to do your homework, it's little things you don't think about that can upset people, remember it is a different culture, and values.

 

[lifes2short]

I've had mine rewired, used the locals, although I could have done the majority myself, I would struggle to get it signed off. I didn't mind using them. They were thoroughly professional, started 07:30 each day, lunch 12:30 - 14:00 and worked until 18:30. No tea breaks, no smoke breaks. I would struggle to get UK tradesmen like that. You really need to do your homework, it's little things you don't think about that can upset people, remember it is a different culture, and values.

sounds like you're switched on and hands on which helps, what part Italy is yours

this is my fathers in Avellino. was worth quite a bit a few years ago but the way things have gone in Italy and the south especially, something like this is about 120k, vacant most of the time and he only goes twice a year, he should of sold it several years ago when it was valued at 350k

 

[allandwf]

sounds like you're switched on and hands on which helps, what part Italy is yours

this is my fathers in Avellino. was worth quite a bit a few years ago but the way things have gone in Italy and the south especially, something like this is about 120k, vacant most of the time and he only goes twice a year, he should of sold it several years ago when it was valued at 350kView attachment 56463

Your near Naples. I love Naples, but it is a very marmite type place. I am in Modica, south east Sicily. It is near the historical centre, a town house at the end of a small street at the top of a hill, a 5 minute walk down into town and about 10 back due to the hill. The price you pay for the view. I wanted somewhere that I could get to without the need to drive if I didn't want too, quiet, but with everything on hand. It has the Baroque buildings, about 100 churches if that's your thing, and chocolate, it is on the tourist trail, but remains very old world, individual shops and still very traditional.

 

[mjheathcote]

A good friend has a property in France and Italy.
Doesn't rent either out.
The French property is used the majority of times in the winter when skiing in the Alps. Pretty much trouble free.
The Italian property was a mistake.
When he bought it he didn't realise it was in an earthquake area, and the work to restore unviable to the required higher standard he discovered. He has restored it, but to a lower stardard but as a result he knows he can never sell it, or rent it out, he is trapped with it without the required certification it can never presently comply with.
We know so many that have property abroad that can't make it work when renting, it has to be for personal use/known friends and family only.

 

[allandwf]

it has to be for personal use/known friends and family only.

^This. The neighbors make a fuss when we visit, or the daughters. I do not think it would be the same if it was randoms though.

 

[iainw]

Friend bought a house and some land in South of Italy.
Locals resented fact the house was lying unused when a local family could have used it.
When he wasn't there they broke in and stole whatever they could lift. They burned his lemon trees. They stole his generator and water pump. He hired local mafia to protect it. Mafia then used it for their purposes when he wasn't there.
Buying was a legal nightmare but nothing compared to trying to sell it. Friend died and family almost gave the house away because they couldn't sell it and legal hoops and costs were ridiculous. Authorities seemed to make up the rules as they went along.

He could have made some money by selling the movie rights..

 

[lifes2short]

Your near Naples. I love Naples, but it is a very marmite type place. I am in Modica, south east Sicily. It is near the historical centre, a town house at the end of a small street at the top of a hill, a 5 minute walk down into town and about 10 back due to the hill. The price you pay for the view. I wanted somewhere that I could get to without the need to drive if I didn't want too, quiet, but with everything on hand. It has the Baroque buildings, about 100 churches if that's your thing, and chocolate, it is on the tourist trail, but remains very old world, individual shops and still very traditional.

sounds very nice, that's a heck of a lot of churches