Help with... 'duck'... Volvo XC90

ChrisH

Junior Member
Messages
89
Hi All,

First to keep things on brand... the 4200 sailed through an MOT last week and with a bit of a tip from the guys at Emblem, I have found the source of my squeaky suspension. Lubing the shock ram did the trick... hopefully there is no bigger issue lurking... for now anyway I will focus on enjoying it... shame I didn't make it to Salisbury on Sunday, I didn't realise until it was too late!

Back to my off-topic request. We are about to replace an ageing Range Rover (04 plate we have had for 7+ years) for something equally load lugging, but, the lure of some semi electric motoring is taking us towards plug in hybrids. Whilst I wouldn't describe myself as overly green - the combined engine size of our last 3 motors is a somewhat cheeky 11.4 litres - we now park in a double garage which fills with diesel fumes when we need to move the car forward even a fraction to load up. With a young family... this has really hit home the fact that a 15 year old oil burner is pretty horrid in terms of what comes out the back end.

Options in the hybrid space seem limited with the XC90 the only car that realistically ticks the boxes. I've never really shopped at this end of the market before and I am quite confused as to where my money is most secure I guess, so any thoughts appreciated. To try and keep it reasonably real... I have seen

16 plate car with 10k miles at £53k - fairly nice spec, very low miles for age... would have a 12 month warranty... my concerns... not my preferred colour (black) and £53k 'feels' like a lot of money on a car that by reg, is 3 years old.

68 plate car with 4k miles at £65k - prob the nicest car and essentially new, but, 12k more money... that's a lot of money. Will it continue to hold that... or am I just buying into greater levels of depreciation. I guess the very personal question there is do I need to... but strangely... I can almost rationalise the price easier because it is basically new.

or

We could search out something more heavily used at around £45k... so assume 16 plate with less than 30k miles on the clock. This feels like a fairly different proposition in some ways... but it would save £20k end to end which is a heck of a lot of money!

I think we will keep the car for at least 3 years... I wouldn't imagine us replacing it before there were genuine all electric options (we tested an i-Pace, amazing car, but maybe a tad too small for now plus charging infrastructure concerns). I am financing as part of a wider shuffle so I don't need car specific finance so that is a bit irrelevant I think. Whilst in theory we can make the budget for any option, if we go top end we will have to sacrifice that spend on a property project we are doing so its not a money no object decision.

I guess many of you will have been through similar thought processes before so let me know what you would do and why?

Cheers,

Chris
 

zagatoes30

Member
Messages
20,758

Ewan rates his hybrid RR highly, so probably a good choice - IMO you can't beat a RR as a load lugger with space and comfort
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
Ewan rates his hybrid RR highly, so probably a good choice - IMO you can't beat a RR as a load lugger with space and comfort

I couldn't believe how 'cheap' (relatively speaking) they were. Especially if you have a company you can put it through.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
That RR is a good choice. ......the Volvo Xc40, 60 and 90’s are killing it down here at the moment though!
Good luck with the decision.
 

ChrisH

Junior Member
Messages
89
I couldn't believe how 'cheap' (relatively speaking) they were. Especially if you have a company you can put it through.

How is it that cheap? Benefit in Kind tax on the XC90 was basically 10k a year so not even worth considering that route... am I missing a trick?

They were on the periphery of my attention but I was looking at the petrol versions which were at a 65k entry point and starting to head towards a level I didn't want to spend. Hadn't really assessed the diesel options... are they true plug in hybrids with electric only range though or just mild hybrids? Not sure the latter will tick the boxes...
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
How is it that cheap? Benefit in Kind tax on the XC90 was basically 10k a year so not even worth considering that route... am I missing a trick?

They were on the periphery of my attention but I was looking at the petrol versions which were at a 65k entry point and starting to head towards a level I didn't want to spend. Hadn't really assessed the diesel options... are they true plug in hybrids with electric only range though or just mild hybrids? Not sure the latter will tick the boxes...

With Hybrids you get classed as a 'green' vehicle. So it's a massive winner.
Ironically I've just been speaking to my accountant and she agrees. Decent power, green credentials, and massive luxury all for 3k a year tax.
Not to mention 45k off the income and corporation tax.
 

ChrisH

Junior Member
Messages
89

On a quick review... this is basically why I didn't really see these as an option:

Top Gear Magazine: But we have got a couple of other issues with the hybrid. Our chief niggle is the lack of electric range: Land Rover claims it’ll drive a single, solitary battery-powered mile, but even that seemed beyond it - 400 yards in our hands was about the limit. There’s also the lack of a clear graphic to let you know what mode you’re in. Land Rover argues that it wants the hybrid system to operate very much in the background, without lots of extravagant images to let you know what’s going on, but we found that we never knew how green we were.

I did consider looking at the newer P400 version which is a true plug in version... but as per above... not sure I want to be starting at 65k and quickly looking at 75k+ cars...
 

Doohickey

Velociraptor
Messages
2,496
My brother has an XC90 Hybrid as a company car for the same BIK benefits discussed earlier as well as having 3 kids and a dog. He loves it and I have to say it's a supremely comfortable car with every conceivable whistle and bell on it. Living in Northumberland, he loves the timer function which preheats the car on a morning! Takes off far quicker than a car that big ought to if you put the boot in but it's not built for corners.

However, where he lives it's difficult to plug in so he uses the engine to charge the battery so probably isn't getting the best use out of it. Also if you do a lot of motorway miles (as he does) then it's a 2litre petrol engine lugging a 2 tonne car with the aerodynamic qualities of a breeze block so you may well be better getting a modern diesel if that's what is will be used for.
 

lifes2short

Member
Messages
5,821
father in law has the BMW X5 40e hybrid/petrol, nice motor and looks the business with the M sport package, best 4x4 suv hybrid imo and low company car tax as well
 

Ewan

Member
Messages
6,756
Mine is the full fat RR, not the Sport. It’s a mild hybrid, not plug-in, so simply automatically shifts between diesel and electric power as you waft along. It’s a great car, but they are not cheap, only being made in the top-of-the-range Autobiography spec. So mine was £114k new, which had dropped to £65k at 3 years old (which is when I bought it).

In due course I plan to change this for the new full fat RR petrol plug-in Hybrid, in maybe 2 years time.
 

rivarama

Member
Messages
1,102
In case depreciation isn’t an issue at all - I still think that buying a 60k SUV whether a 2 yo Volvo or 3/4 yo RR is likely to keep you 40k lighter in 5years time. None of them being cheap to maintain over that period.
If you are set on an SUV there are cheaper alternatives that are still good and reliable - 2014 cayenne will set you back 35k in petrol for example. If you’re open to a roomy sedan what about a 2015 £35k QP6 V6?
All options will go to £15-20k in 5yrs but I’d rather start from £35 than £65k :)
 

rivarama

Member
Messages
1,102
Mine is the full fat RR, not the Sport. It’s a mild hybrid, not plug-in, so simply automatically shifts between diesel and electric power as you waft along. It’s a great car, but they are not cheap, only being made in the top-of-the-range Autobiography spec. So mine was £114k new, which had dropped to £65k at 3 years old (which is when I bought it).

In due course I plan to change this for the new full fat RR petrol plug-in Hybrid, in maybe 2 years time.
Ewan - have you found that the new gen FFRR are more reliable than the equivalent RR sport, which has forums plastered w horror stories / and bad dealer service experiences?
I’d love to buy one at some point, but I have been put off by my colleagues at work that keep complaining abt their RR sports from a reliability standpoint. They look the business though
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
On a quick review... this is basically why I didn't really see these as an option:

Top Gear Magazine: But we have got a couple of other issues with the hybrid. Our chief niggle is the lack of electric range: Land Rover claims it’ll drive a single, solitary battery-powered mile, but even that seemed beyond it - 400 yards in our hands was about the limit. There’s also the lack of a clear graphic to let you know what mode you’re in. Land Rover argues that it wants the hybrid system to operate very much in the background, without lots of extravagant images to let you know what’s going on, but we found that we never knew how green we were.

I did consider looking at the newer P400 version which is a true plug in version... but as per above... not sure I want to be starting at 65k and quickly looking at 75k+ cars...

I'll be honest here. I have absolutely no interest in the hybrid side of things with the RRS. However, as a tax dodge it's brilliant. I can stick 45k through my company and only pay 3k a year tax.
What's not to like?
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,167
That can't be right can it? I think the newer P400e will be that kind of BIK tax but earlier model is much higher I think. Thought that was more like 36% BIK rather than 19% on P400e.
 

ChrisH

Junior Member
Messages
89
I need to go back to our accountants... the illustration they gave me on the XC90 suggested yearly tax payments of close to 10k... which means there is essentially zero benefit putting it through the company, cleaner to keep it outside. If it was only 3k however... totally different story... so I will check!


I bought the 16 plate car... despite being 3 years old its only done 9.5k miles... one owner (Volvo UK) and presenting almost brand new. Dealer sale so it will be warrantied etc. Did hardly any miles the first 18 months of it's life so I wonder if it was used for advertising / promotions or similar. A lot of the marketing stuff was with black cars which this is so who knows... I may contact Volvo with the VIN to see if they will share info. Hopefully it's that and not that it sat broken in the corner of the factory anyway :-|

It has every option ticked, and a few accessories as well (tow bar and roof bars) both of which I wanted and would be 2k to add as extras. Being a 16 plate, it also sneaks in pre tax changes so my road tax will be... zero. Not a bad saving considering all of them 2017 on get stung with the luxury car premium so are up at £450 odd a year... that's actually quite a saving over 3-4 years of ownership. Most of our miles week to week are city based, and it will charged every night in a garage... so our expectation is that we won't put much fuel in it month to month... but the petrol engine obviously means we can drive down to Cornwall or over to France (which will be its first trip) without the charging anxiety of a full electric i Pace or similar.

Paid 53k so overall... I think that's a good deal. Obviously it will depreciate but I think it will be pretty good value motoring for us... it would be low 80s to spec a brand new order to the same level so I've dodged the worst of that loss.. we are unlikely to add crazy miles so hopefully it should still be worth upper thirties in 3 1/2 years time. Given our running costs should be very very low with the tax and limited fuel spend... I'm optimistic this will be as cheap as you can drive a lux SUV right here right now.


Now I'm off to see if I can make it even cheaper with some kind of company car tax angle that I've missed!
 

Ewan

Member
Messages
6,756
Ewan - have you found that the new gen FFRR are more reliable than the equivalent RR sport, which has forums plastered w horror stories / and bad dealer service experiences?
I’d love to buy one at some point, but I have been put off by my colleagues at work that keep complaining abt their RR sports from a reliability standpoint. They look the business though

I’ve not had a Sport, so can’t comment on those. But my business partner and I have had Range Rovers and Discoverys for the last decade with excellent reliability. Personally I’d not have anything in place of my RR, other than a new one.

(Please note, I’ve never owned cars by the likes of VW, Skoda, Audi, etc, or any other manufacturer deemed reliable. My car diet consists of the likes of Ferrari, Maserati, Lambo, various classics, etc. So maybe my view of “reliable” is the not the same as some other people’s!)