Help me clarify what the gear change is in this GT

[general_piffle]

Sorry! I'm looking at a 2012 GranTurismo S and am getting confused. It has the up/down paddles behind the steering wheel (pic attached) so this is the F1 gearbox yes? Or is it something else? Basically I'm not sure of the differences between the S and the MC shift models, especially when it comes to gear change!

Apologies as I'm sure this has been done to death, and I have been reading about them to try and figure it out, I just find the differences between the S and the MC confusing...

 

[Neptune.]

We can't really tell you unless you send a pic of the central tunnel, both auto and F1 have paddles.

 

[Lozzer]

Sorry! I'm looking at a 2012 GranTurismo S and am getting confused. It has the up/down paddles behind the steering wheel (pic attached) so this is the F1 gearbox yes? Or is it something else? Basically I'm not sure of the differences between the S and the MC shift models, especially when it comes to gear change!

Apologies as I'm sure this has been done to death, and I have been reading about them to try and figure it out, I just find the differences between the S and the MC confusing...

View attachment 150093

I always thought the S was the ZF auto box? in addition the centre display is showing a P for Park as opposed to an N for neutral with an F1 box? So I'm going with it's a ZF 6sp auto with paddles.

 

[DaveT]

Central tunnel if it has gear shifter it's the ZF Auto, if only 1 and R buttons it's an MC.

Its a 2012 so could be a ZF with the quicker MC-Shift software. Still an Auto but a more sporty gearing.

I had one of those - quite rare and only around about that time.

 

[CatmanV2]

I always thought the S was the ZF auto box? in addition the centre display is showing a P for Park as opposed to an N for neutral with an F1 box? So I'm going with it's a ZF 6sp auto with paddles.

Not sure about the S designation being 100% accurate, especially when taken from an Autotrader description (possibly) but I think you're bang on with the P / N. ZF box

C

 

[Neptune.]

in addition the centre display is showing a P for Park as opposed to an N for neutral with an F1 box? So I'm going with it's a ZF 6sp auto with paddles.

Ah yeah, nice catch !

 

[general_piffle]

Some great pointers, thank you. How would I know if it had the MC-shift software?

Am I correct in thinking that if it's the ZF auto then it can (and should) still be driven in Sport and you change up and down a six speed box with the paddles? So you can still drive it as a sort of 'assisted manual'.

Shifts just aren't as swift as an MC, unless it has the MC software. But I'm guessing a Formula Dynamics Drive-by-Wire module would sharpen this up if needed.

 

[Bebs]

Generally I’d say the MC-shift and the ZF auto are very different things. They also sound different as the engines are slightly different and are not interchangeable between the two models.
You really need to drive both to appreciate how great the difference is and what you prefer/would suit you, your driving style and what you will be using the car for.

 

[general_piffle]

Generally I’d say the MC-shift and the ZF auto are very different things. They also sound different as the engines are slightly different and are not interchangeable between the two models.
You really need to drive both to appreciate how great the difference is and what you prefer/would suit you, your driving style and what you will be using the car for.

Thanks Bebs. I’m thinking about things like an X-pipe and valved Larini rear boxes. So that should change the sound a fair bit.

But if it’s a ZF auto with paddles, I take it I can still drive it in Sport mode using the paddles so it’s kind of like an assisted manual?

The fully blown MC with carbon bonnet etc. etc. is outside of my budget for this project. But I’m still getting to grips with where the ‘S’ sits in the range and its capabilities.

I’m not really a fan of standard autos and want more involvement than that. Hence also looking at 4200s but parts availability (or lack of) is edging me away.

 

[Bebs]

Thanks Bebs. I’m thinking about things like an X-pipe and valves Larini rear boxes. So that should change the sound a fair bit.

But if it’s a ZF auto with paddles, I take it I can still drive it in Sport mode using the paddles so it’s kind of like an assisted manual?

The fully blown MC with carbon bonnet etc. etc. is outside of my budget for this project. But I’m still getting to grips with where the ‘S’ sits in the range and its capabilities.

I’m not really a fan of standard autos and want more involvement than that. Hence also looking at 4200s but parts availability (or lack of) is edging me away.

I take it with ‘full blown MC’ you mean the MC Stradale?
I can be confusing as all GT’s look much the same.
The Granturismo S came in two versions:
- ZF auto box or
-MC-Shift (automated manual)
The engine timing is different between the two versions (hence different sound) and the gearing is lower for the MC-Shift.
They are very different cars.

The face lift Granturismo Sport was introduced in 2012 and came only with the ZF gearbox.

The full blown MC Stradale was a stand alone model and only available with the MC-Shift (automated manual)

Hopefully the above helps explain.

 

[Ewan]

It’s an auto box, so even using the paddles it’s not the same experience as using the paddles on an MC (manual) car.
The reality is that on the ZF auto car you won’t really use the paddles very often as it’s fairly pointless.
If you want the more manual experience, go for a proper MC version (which doesn’t mean it needs to be a Strad). Just a normal Gran Tourismo S MC-Shift. You can get one for less than £20k.

 

[Bebs]

If you want the more manual experience, go for a proper MC version (which doesn’t mean it needs to be a Strad). Just a normal Gran Tourismo S MC-Shift. You can get one for less than £20k.

Exactly this ^^
It does sound like you should be looking for a pre-2012 Granturismo S with the MC-Shift gearbox rather than a ZF auto.

 

[Neptune.]

I've got a ZF and I use the paddles about 80% of the time.
The paddles are far from being useless, they give you engine braking... one more reason to hear your engine rev and as a bonus it saves your brakes!

When you're in Auto the problem is that you have to choose between a reactive gearbox and a comfortable ride.
When you're in manual you can have the best of both worlds.

But if it’s a ZF auto with paddles, I take it I can still drive it in Sport mode using the paddles so it’s kind of like an assisted manual?

If you put it in Drive, by default it goes into auto mode. It will shift between gears early so you don't waste too much fuel. The suspension will be set to the most comfortable setting.
You can still use the paddles whenever you need/want to, they take precedence over whatever the computer decided to do. It will then remain in manual for a few seconds, after which it'll go back to auto.
It's a great mode when you want the car to be quiet or to cruise on the highway.

If you put it in drive and press the sport button, it will let the engine rev a lot higher before switching gears. The suspension will be noticeably firmer. Here again paddles work just like in regular auto. The gearbox is nice and reactive, it's a great setting for spirited driving, but sometimes it isn't great on the highways because it tends to stay in a lower gear and be louder. I find it to be great also for traffic jams, you can use engine braking to mostly drive without pressing the brake too often and it is reactive so you can reaccelerate quickly.

Last but certainly not least are the manual modes.

To get the gearbox in the full manual setting you need to push the lever to Drive and then push it sideways towards the + and - signs.

Then the gearbox won't shift until you press the paddles (or reach the rev limiter, depending on which car version you have). You can also push the gearbox lever forward and backward to change the gears, if you prefer using this rather than the paddles.
Sometimes depending on your driving position using the lever instead of the paddles can be useful, I personally use both.

When you're in auto you can choose to press the sport button which will give you the possibility to have the suspension either soft or firm
Personally most of the time I'm using the manual mode with the comfortable suspension setting.

Try all the modes and see which ones you prefer.

 

[Lozzer]

I've got a ZF and I use the paddles about 80% of the time.
The paddles are far from being useless, they give you engine braking... one more reason to hear your engine rev and as a bonus it saves your brakes!

When you're in Auto the problem is that you have to choose between a reactive gearbox and a comfortable ride.
When you're in manual you can have the best of both worlds.


If you put it in Drive, by default it goes into auto mode. It will shift between gears early so you don't waste too much fuel. The suspension will be set to the most comfortable setting.
You can still use the paddles whenever you need/want to, they take precedence over whatever the computer decided to do. It will then remain in manual for a few seconds, after which it'll go back to auto.
It's a great mode when you want the car to be quiet or to cruise on the highway.

If you put it in drive and press the sport button, it will let the engine rev a lot higher before switching gears. The suspension will be noticeably firmer. Here again paddles work just like in regular auto. The gearbox is nice and reactive, it's a great setting for spirited driving, but sometimes it isn't great on the highways because it tends to stay in a lower gear and be louder. I find it to be great also for traffic jams, you can use engine braking to mostly drive without pressing the brake too often and it is reactive so you can reaccelerate quickly.

Last but certainly not least are the manual modes.

To get the gearbox in the full manual setting you need to push the lever to Drive and then push it sideways towards the + and - signs.

Then the gearbox won't shift until you press the paddles (or reach the rev limiter, depending on which car version you have). You can also push the gearbox lever forward and backward to change the gears, if you prefer using this rather than the paddles.
Sometimes depending on your driving position using the lever instead of the paddles can be useful, I personally use both.

When you're in auto you can choose to press the sport button which will give you the possibility to have the suspension either soft or firm
Personally most of the time I'm using the manual mode with the comfortable suspension setting.

Try all the modes and see which ones you prefer.

Like said, I never drive the QP in Auto, what's the point of doing that? Manual paddles 100% of the time for me.

 

[general_piffle]

I take it with ‘full blown MC’ you mean the MC Stradale?
I can be confusing as all GT’s look much the same.
The Granturismo S came in two versions:
- ZF auto box or
-MC-Shift (automated manual)
The engine timing is different between the two versions (hence different sound) and the gearing is lower for the MC-Shift.
They are very different cars.

The face lift Granturismo Sport was introduced in 2012 and came only with the ZF gearbox.

The full blown MC Stradale was a stand alone model and only available with the MC-Shift (automated manual)

Hopefully the above helps explain.

Yes, it was the Stradale I was referring to, which apart from budget would be too focussed and not really what I'm after.

This is massively helpful, thank you.

You then go on to say: "It does sound like you should be looking for a pre-2012 Granturismo S with the MC-Shift gearbox rather than a ZF auto."

So, the pre-2012 S with MC-Shift gearbox is of definite interest but low mileage examples are thin on the ground!

Post 2012 if you want an assisted manual/MC-Shift how can you differentiate them from the straight auto? Just trying to include more years in my search to broaden potential cars. Thanks for helping me learn something new today!

Although I have to admit I think I prefer the look of the pre-2012 cars, simpler and probably closer to the original Pininfarina design.

 

[cheburator]

The face lift Granturismo Sport was introduced in 2012 and came only with the ZF gearbox.
.

Not quite - there are 44 UK RHD late 2012-2017 GranTurismo Sport MC Shifts with the F1 box. They are all 460PS and also have bespoke Skyhook damping. Think of them as 3/4 of 4 seater Stradales at less than 1/2 price…

 

[philw696]

Explained simply in the 70's

 

[Bebs]

Yes, it was the Stradale I was referring to, which apart from budget would be too focussed and not really what I'm after.

This is massively helpful, thank you.

You then go on to say: "It does sound like you should be looking for a pre-2012 Granturismo S with the MC-Shift gearbox rather than a ZF auto."

So, the pre-2012 S with MC-Shift gearbox is of definite interest but low mileage examples are thin on the ground!

Post 2012 if you want an assisted manual/MC-Shift how can you differentiate them from the straight auto? Just trying to include more years in my search to broaden potential cars. Thanks for helping me learn something new today!

Although I have to admit I think I prefer the look of the pre-2012 cars, simpler and probably closer to the original Pininfarina design.

Don’t get too hung up on low mileage. Condition and maintenance is everything on these cars. I’d much rather a well cared for driven car than a garage queen. They don’t like being parked up for a long time.
In terms of spotting the difference between ZF and MC-Shift it is very easy.
The ZF has a gearlever as in your own photos above. The MC-Shift has no gearlever, just a plate with 1 & R as in my photo below.

 

[3hcp]

Also worth considering that the MC-shift cars may require a £5k clutch every 30-40,000 miles if used in towns.

 

[Bebs]

Also worth considering that the MC-shift cars require a £5k clutch every 30-40,000 miles.

I’m now on 53,750 miles on one clutch. Clutch wear 50%.
Admittedly I do a lot of long distance touring, but even so.