GTS engine catastrophe

Itare Sam

Member
Messages
131
Seems the oil galleries being 2mm would quickly block with the size of silicone shown in the pictures. Then again at high temperature in these engines and with strong oil pressure it might well fight it's way around for a while? My dad lasted quite a few years with ateries almost totally blocked.
No real idea how long any engine will run with contamination so best left to experts. (I do still like a theory!)
For certain I will keep any engine that dies in one of my cars. Have always wanted strip an engine, all the better if it needs no rebuild :D
I tend to think your first theory is more likely, the oil galleries would block pretty quickly, but that could happen after the sealant detached itself from wherever it's supposed to be, rather than at the service, so at any time. Still sounds fairly implausible, I admit, especially given nobody has heard of it happening before. What it all does suggest is that we should never buy a used car without dropping the sump to check the oil for silicone sealant (or indeed anything else made of silicone), detached labels, hay and mouse turds ;).
 

Itare Sam

Member
Messages
131
Hi Sam,
Its a real shame what has happened, feel for you, just a thought you might want to keep an eye on this car at auction, the engine has only done 24k miles and starts, then sell all the other bits and recoup some money back, just a thought

https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/35434970
Thanks very much for the kind words and the link. Certainly worth consideration if other avenues Matt is pursuing don't work out.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
Don’t know about the Maser engine but you usually find with A-series that the excess silicone muppets throw about ends up getting sucked into the oil pickup and blocks that rather than the oil ways.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
An update from our end.

There are quite a few 4.7S F1 engines about but not surprisingly, they are not the same.

The crank, block, sump and heads are the same but the two engines are timed differently.

Differences:
Inlet cams
Variators
Front casing
Harmonic balancer
Aux belt
Bellhousing studs
Plus a few other minor bits.

We are not prepared to risk taking the bits from the stuffed engine, that’s not how we work.

There are currently no 4.7auto engines for sale so it’s a matter of waiting till the right one comes along.

We are also exploring the route of a salvage vehicle. The only one we have found is in Dubai so too risky.
 

lozcb

Member
Messages
12,301
An update from our end.

There are quite a few 4.7S F1 engines about but not surprisingly, they are not the same.

The crank, block, sump and heads are the same but the two engines are timed differently.

Differences:
Inlet cams
Variators
Front casing
Harmonic balancer
Aux belt
Bellhousing studs
Plus a few other minor bits.

We are not prepared to risk taking the bits from the stuffed engine, that’s not how we work.

There are currently no 4.7auto engines for sale so it’s a matter of waiting till the right one comes along.

We are also exploring the route of a salvage vehicle. The only one we have found is in Dubai so too risky.

Have you checked the german and spanish coparts
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
An update from our end.

There are quite a few 4.7S F1 engines about but not surprisingly, they are not the same.

The crank, block, sump and heads are the same but the two engines are timed differently.

Differences:
Inlet cams
Variators

Front casing
Harmonic balancer
Aux belt
Bellhousing studs
Plus a few other minor bits.

We are not prepared to risk taking the bits from the stuffed engine, that’s not how we work.

There are currently no 4.7auto engines for sale so it’s a matter of waiting till the right one comes along.

We are also exploring the route of a salvage vehicle. The only one we have found is in Dubai so too risky.

This is very interesting as I assumed that all 4.7 power units would be identical with just modifications to suit the gearbox. This assumption alone help me avoid upgrade envy from my 4.2 dry sumped car. The leap in performance above 5200rpm still thrills me. I had heard the later cars got this via another means. Guess not, in the car of F1 cars but seeming the Auto gearbox is tuned to give a similar effect.
 

Itare Sam

Member
Messages
131
Thanks for finding this. It's a bit confusing as it says it is a "4.7L MC" and also it is an "MC Stradale" but that it has "a standard automatic transmission". As it's in the USA I checked and found this on Wikipedia - "US market MC's do not have the "Stradale" part of the name, and they are sold with a fully automatic six-speed transmission rather than the one available in the rest of the world". Given what Matt posted about the differences between models and engines it's clearly a bit of a minefield making sure the engine is compatible, especially if it's located abroad.
 

bigbob

Member
Messages
8,952
Thanks for finding this. It's a bit confusing as it says it is a "4.7L MC" and also it is an "MC Stradale" but that it has "a standard automatic transmission". As it's in the USA I checked and found this on Wikipedia - "US market MC's do not have the "Stradale" part of the name, and they are sold with a fully automatic six-speed transmission rather than the one available in the rest of the world". Given what Matt posted about the differences between models and engines it's clearly a bit of a minefield making sure the engine is compatible, especially if it's located abroad.

That engine will be fine and will be the updated 460PS unit too. In the US they only sold the automated manual briefly in 2009 ish. When the Stradale came out they did it differently in the US and called it an MC but fitted the auto box and made it only as a four seater so it’s a trim option really. We got something similar with the GrandCab.
 
Last edited:

Itare Sam

Member
Messages
131
That engine will be fine and will be the updated 460PS unit too. In the US they only sold the automated manual briefly in 2009 ish. When the Stradale came out they did it differently in the US and called it an MC but fitted the auto box and made it only as a four seater so it’s a grim option really. We got something similar with the GrandCab.
Aha that explains it. many thanks
 

Nigelgta

Junior Member
Messages
80
Sam, afraid I can't offer any helpful technical or engine advice but just wanted to say I'm really sorry to hear about this. If this happened to mine it would totally stuff me! Your 'move on', look forward attitude is to be admired! Hopefully you can get a replacement engine sourced as soon as possible for you. Be interested in the response you get from Maserati. A non caring company would simply blame it on a non-Maserati dealer service. I head that with Alfa Romeo a few years ago with a GT which blew at just over 30K. A customer caring company will help you out, at least a bit hopefully. Be interesting to see what what they say. Hope all goes as well as it can for you.
 

ChrisQP09

Member
Messages
2,994
That engine will be fine and will be the updated 460PS unit too. In the US they only sold the automated manual briefly in 2009 ish. When the Stradale came out they did it differently in the US and called it an MC but fitted the auto box and made it only as a four seater so it’s a trim option really. We got something similar with the GrandCab.

Could be the silver bullet! Shipping would not be that problematic, plenty if bubble wrap!
 

Itare Sam

Member
Messages
131
Sam, afraid I can't offer any helpful technical or engine advice but just wanted to say I'm really sorry to hear about this. If this happened to mine it would totally stuff me! Your 'move on', look forward attitude is to be admired! Hopefully you can get a replacement engine sourced as soon as possible for you. Be interested in the response you get from Maserati. A non caring company would simply blame it on a non-Maserati dealer service. I head that with Alfa Romeo a few years ago with a GT which blew at just over 30K. A customer caring company will help you out, at least a bit hopefully. Be interesting to see what what they say. Hope all goes as well as it can for you.
Thank you for the kind words - yes there's not much point in wallowing in the misery of it all - got to get it fixed! I've wondered why I seem to be reacting more calmly than some on here say they would have done - trust me it's not because the cost of a Maserati engine is peanuts to (what I laughingly call) my bank account. Strangely, I'm not as shocked about a Maserati engine failure as I would have been if it had happened to my 18 year old Mercedes E500 (tempting fate here ;)). Not sure what that says about me or my subconscious auto prejudices. But more likely my calmness is due to my advanced age, can't afford to waste any energy haha! Interesting to hear about the reactions of Alfa Romeo to your engine failure, I suspect that's how they all work, if it's not 100% main dealer serviced (and also one owner from new) they absolve themselves of responsibility. We'll see....
 

Swindorski

Junior Member
Messages
37
So sorry to hear this Sam. It sounds as though it is EXACTLY the same problem that killed my 3200 engine ten years ago! People told me back then that the engines were normally bullet proof and it must be a one off.... To be fair though, this is the only time I've ever read about anything similar, so you and I are just the unlucky ones I guess.....
I'm sure you're hurting inside, I know I did, rolling through all of the 'what ifs' and a million and one permutations of what you could have done differently, but it just doesn't work like that.
Nobody died. Cars are fixable. You knew the risks when you bought a car like a Maserati and the alternative is a lifetime of Mondeos - and nobody wants to live like that!!! Best of luck to you. Joe

EDIT - This is what happened to me: https://www.sportsmaserati.com/inde...-happens-to-older-3200s-sad-have-a-read.1918/
 
Last edited:

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
Agree about the age thing, which kept me sane in another incident. My 3200 was household third car and we only had parking for two on the drive, side by side. My freshly polished and serviced 3200 AC was parked two car lengths behind Mrs rs48635 truck - a Jeep Patriot. Got a tearful call at work one day. My wife reversed with gusto not looking behind. Hit NSF corner of the 3200 shifting it several feet back into the road.
Nobody more surprised than me as the words rolled off my tongue, "nobody hurt, it's just a car that can be fixed".
took 6 months and sh!t loads of aggro , but fixed it is.
 

Itare Sam

Member
Messages
131
So sorry to hear this Sam. It sounds as though it is EXACTLY the same problem that killed my 3200 engine ten years ago! People told me back then that the engines were normally bullet proof and it must be a one off.... To be fair though, this is the only time I've ever read about anything similar, so you and I are just the unlucky ones I guess.....
I'm sure you're hurting inside, I know I did, rolling through all of the 'what ifs' and a million and one permutations of what you could have done differently, but it just doesn't work like that.
Nobody died. Cars are fixable. You knew the risks when you bought a car like a Maserati and the alternative is a lifetime of Mondeos - and nobody wants to live like that!!! Best of luck to you. Joe

EDIT - This is what happened to me: https://www.sportsmaserati.com/inde...-happens-to-older-3200s-sad-have-a-read.1918/
Thanks Joe, and belated commiserations for the loss of your 3200 in 2010. It does sound very similar. As you say, it's clearly a rare thing to happen, as the ten year gap between the two engine failures reported on this forum seems to confirm. I have heard of one similar case of sealant in the oil, but that was a Ferrari 400 many years ago. Specialists Barr-Tech of Cambridge had to drop the sump for a different reason and found sealant in the oil, so by pure luck avoided a catastrophe.
You are absolutely right about knowing the risk when buying a Maserati (warranty companies asking £3500 per year for limited warranty cover is a pretty strong warning if we didn't know already). As I said in an earlier post, I've been pretty lucky owning over 50 cars over the years and not had too many disasters, it's just unfortunate this happening with the first Maserati I've owned. And I do have a venerable (and still pretty rapid) Mercedes E500 to drive rather than a Mondeo. Thank you for your good wishes. All the best.
 

Itare Sam

Member
Messages
131
Agree about the age thing, which kept me sane in another incident. My 3200 was household third car and we only had parking for two on the drive, side by side. My freshly polished and serviced 3200 AC was parked two car lengths behind Mrs rs48635 truck - a Jeep Patriot. Got a tearful call at work one day. My wife reversed with gusto not looking behind. Hit NSF corner of the 3200 shifting it several feet back into the road.
Nobody more surprised than me as the words rolled off my tongue, "nobody hurt, it's just a car that can be fixed".
took 6 months and sh!t loads of aggro , but fixed it is.
Ouch! Your poor wife must have been mortified. I guess the 3200 was below the line sight in the rear view mirror of the Jeep? My wife has a Shogun with a rear-mounted spare wheel partly obscuring the back window (plus she never cleans the windows ;)) so I can see the same situation happening. Congrats on your spur of the moment reaction - there's no point in ranting and raving when the person is already in tears. In my case there's nobody for me to blame so losing my cool would only affect me - what's the point? Very pleased to hear you got the 3200 fixed.