Formula 1 Qualifying F1

D Walker

Member
Messages
9,827
Mercedes are appealing. Surprised?
Not surprised. Why wouldn’t they.
However, how you can appeal to the people who “massaged” their own rules. They are never going to say we got it wrong.
And, I’m sure Hamilton wouldn’t want to be gifted it on a reversal.
I’m just amazed it came to this. I wasn’t really bothered on the result. May the best man/team win.
However, I’m conflicted that decisions of the track contrived to deliver a different result.
Maybe the rules need a good look at.
  1. No tyre changes under safety cars/red flags etc.
  2. Everyone stays out in order or everyone parks in pit straight.
why should someone be disadvantaged because they are in the wrong place when an incident occurs.
I was flippant earlier when I suggested Merc should get Bottas to “park” his car.
Can you imagine the furore if he had done.
caveat: I don’t support either!!! I just like scalextrix
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
Not surprised. Why wouldn’t they.
However, how you can appeal to the people who “massaged” their own rules. They are never going to say we got it wrong.
And, I’m sure Hamilton wouldn’t want to be gifted it on a reversal.
I’m just amazed it came to this. I wasn’t really bothered on the result. May the best man/team win.
However, I’m conflicted that decisions of the track contrived to deliver a different result.
Maybe the rules need a good look at.
  1. No tyre changes under safety cars/red flags etc.
  2. Everyone stays out in order or everyone parks in pit straight.
why should someone be disadvantaged because they are in the wrong place when an incident occurs.
I was flippant earlier when I suggested Merc should get Bottas to “park” his car.
Can you imagine the furore if he had done.
caveat: I don’t support either!!! I just like scalextrix

The course will be

Stewards
FIA Appeal
Court of Arbitration for Sport (Independent, they’re not the people who “massaged their own rules”)
 

D Walker

Member
Messages
9,827
I doubt it will get it court of Arbitration. And I never said “they” massaged the rules.
There has never been an instance in F1 racing where only a “certain” amount of cars were allowed to un lap themselves. The ones that did, did not form up behind the leaders.
Even the other drivers, Lando etc have expressed a concern about the restart procedure.
They have set a precedent. If it’s the same in future years the teams know what their sacrificial driver needs to do. Park it 2 laps from end on a hard to recover corner.
Do we want that?
 

Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,668
The only way this farce ends with any credibility is if Mercedes take this all the way, and win, to ensure the FIA cannot get away with this kind of nonsense in the future. If Mercedes back down or get bought off, it will be the end of F1 as a respected, aspirational motor sport.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
They have set a precedent. If it’s the same in future years the teams know what their sacrificial driver needs to do. Park it 2 laps from end on a hard to recover corner.
Do we want that?

That’s been done, Nelson Piquet Jnr and Renault. It didn’t end well for them.
 

gb-gta

Member
Messages
1,130
Maybe as soon as masi changed his mind (well, some money man told him to change his mind) about the cars between lewis and max Mercedes should have just played the stupid game too and told Bottas to slam his car into the wall, therefore bringing out a safety car again to nullify the last lap.

This is the kind of thing that will happen now in F1, why not, they have decided manipulating the result is part of the ‘sport’ now.
Hence why anyone with any interest in actual sporting integrity may as well just walk now, rather than be part of the farce.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
Merc could have decided to give up track position for tyre performance and this would have put Max in front behind the safety car. Then Lewis would have been hunting, and in the same circumstances, would have won.

This is about the rub of the green. In previous races Lewis benefited from changing his tyres under a red flag, other times Max benefited.

Rules are interpreted, they go one way or the other. All teams are happy to take advantage of the rules when it suits them. Merc could probably have finished the year with the 4 engines Lewis had (the same number as Max) but they stuck a new one in because the benefit outweighed the penalty. A purely competitive decision, is that in the spirit of the rules? Maybe, maybe not.

Personally, I loved the rollercoaster. I think both drivers have displayed incredible skill throughout the season.

I look back to 2008 when Massa (that’s a bit like Masi :think:) was world champion for half a lap, then Lewis overtook Glock (who had a test with McLaren :think:) and snatched it on the last lap.

Easy come, easy go. Sporting integrity? All of them (including Merc) would trade that for a win - the FIA radio has shown us that this year.
 

BL330

Member
Messages
1,121
Really engaging season and I'm happy with the final result. The guy who won the most races this year won the title.
 

MarkMas

Chief pedant
Messages
8,795
I know almost nothing about F1, but having watched this by chance, it seems that the rules says that when the safety car is out, you can let the lapped cars through, so that they go all the way round and join the back of the pack. The rule does not seem to explicitly say ALL the lapped cars. A key question is why does that rule exist? Is it just a convenient opportunity to resolve the general problem of slower (lapped) cars being in the way, while the safety car is causing a general delay?

If that is the intent, then how it is done is just a matter of convenience, not an absolute requirement. And the only cars going past that mattered were the ones between the No1 and the No2 placed cars. So to take the time to let them ALL through (not explicitly required, and nor relevant to the outcome) would have just delayed the end of the safety car period and advantaged Hamilton. But to not let any of them through, while the recovery was still going on, would have been not to follow the rule at all, and this would also have advantaged Hamilton. To let the ones in the gap through certainly advantaged Verstappen, but only given the state of his tyres, which is a team tactics issue, not a rules issue, so he got lucky and won fairly.

One solution for the future would be to say that if the safety car is active in the last 3 laps of the race, an extra 3 laps are added to make the finish less arbitrary.

It also seems really unfair that when the safety car comes out all the gaps between the cars are closed up. But nobody seems to moan about that.
 
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PhillV8S

Member
Messages
124
It was just another cluster f@#k decision by Massi, and the FIA have to stick with him or look stupid. The rules are simple, either all cars stay in position behind the SC or the lapped cars pass, not a few of the directors choosing. Carlos Sainz will be wondering why he had lapped cars ahead of him still at the restart instead of a chance of attacking Max for 2nd place no doubt!
I hope the FIA get kicked into touch at the appeal in Paris.