exhaust rattling phenomenon cured

Fossy

New Member
Messages
45
I thought i'd post this as a separate post for anyone who has/or is experiencing this problem.

The knocking noise on pull away..............I have herd this a few times in the past from people I know who have owned them too but didn't connect. Get this ..............
Maserati Exhaust manifolds are twin skinned, and the inner skin detaches from the outer skin after a number of years and causes a knocking or rattling which sounds like the exhaust is knocking on something metallic under the car. Exactly the noise i'm getting!
Attempts to rectify the problem in the past have included trying to strip the inners out, drilling small holes and welding the inner back etc, which has stopped it for a time, then it returns. It happens on short journey cars mainly due to condensation between the inner and outer parts causing the connecting spots to erode possibly, or just the original spot welds were infact done badly, or the pulses within the headers destroys the welds and causes them to fail;, who knows ?. Once the exhause warms up, the noise decreases due to expansion of the inner lining, but I still got a little knocking even when warm. When the car was in N when cold, it would rev cleanly without noise, but when 1st or REVwas selected, I'd pull away and the bloody knocking would start. Reason was explained to me - in N, there is no forces or load from engine to rear wheels, but in gear, when you pull away, the engine is forcing the whole transmission to turn the wheels which causes the engine to twist or tilt the opposite way to the output direction. The exhausts are pretty rigid and bolted together throughout their length, and the slight twist causes the outer and inner parts of the manifold to be able to make enough contact to generate this noise, but not when in neutral.

Ok, a new manifold is £2000+VAT each side, cough splutter ........... and same problem potentially down the line. After market one is single skin so fit and forget ???? or just put little crimps in the header tubes where not noticed through to the cat, hey prestow, the outer and inner are now as one and technically the noise should cease. I reasearched this problem through Maserati service and they agreed with me that this is excactly the cause of the noise, so anyone else getting a tapping/knocking noise when cold on pullaway .........you now know.
 
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hodroyd

Member
Messages
14,150
Fossy,
Many thanks for that little gem, It would drive me daft if I got it, now I know the issue I will know what to do, thanks again.
Cheers
R
 

Elliott653

Member
Messages
1,241
I have this problem. For a while I thought that it was something to do with a blown catalytic converter. I eventually read on here a while ago that it was a manifold issue. I've just had some work done by Bill McGrath. Unfortunately, I completely forgot to mention this to them.

:(
 

andyp250f

New Member
Messages
126
This is interesting. I've never really plugged my day job, however as we are on the subject of exhausts I will. Apart from making bespoke stainless steel or mild if its historic, I have jigs for most ferraris for the last 25 years. I do have a couple of maserati jigs, however, they are (from memory) for the 3200. I would have to have a look at one, but I reckon a new pair of manifolds could be produced for a lot less than the £2000 PER side as stated. Its a sad fact that most companies charge by the "Badge on the bonnet", as opposed to the materials plus labour approach. If anybody is willing, I am more than happy to make a new pair. Sorry if this sounds like a plug, it really is meant to be an offer of help.
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,269
Nothing shamefull or pluggish about it Andy, a very handy offer of help I'd say, a set of bespoke headers of ballanced length and no pre-cats would be on any enthusiasts wish list I'm sure...
 

adam01

Member
Messages
1,079
Love to see a product come to " market" - Larini are supposedly doing a ceramic set of headers for the 4200 but nothing has yet surfaced - and i'm sure their pricing will be prohibitive
 

hodroyd

Member
Messages
14,150
Andy,
That's a good offer and we know another member would be fair on pricing involved, any 3200 owner with the issues should contact you and ask, if they get the problem.
Cheers
R
 

Fossy

New Member
Messages
45
Whoops

Sorry, I stated the the exhaust phenomenon was cured in the main title, but actually its far from cured, as im still chewing over excactly how to go about stopping the rattling. Welding them through is said to be iffy because of the fact that welding generally needs to be done when the parts are clean from dirt or tarnish.
I think that drilling holes through and using stainless or titanium gas tight rivets would work possibly, or small crimps in the header tubes may work.

Whats your thoughts ? Mine are rattling like a *****.
 

andyp250f

New Member
Messages
126
Welding shoudn't be a problem as long as they TIG welded, the metal won't need to be "shiny", just intact.
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,269
An unqualified and personal view on the fixes you are describing are that they would probably have a very small hope of fixing it and be temporary at best. The work will need to be completed off the vehicle and if you are going to that expence I'd want the work guarenteed beforehand and that is not likely to happen. The olnly experience I have with seperation on double skin exhausts was on an old Honda (1960's) classic motorbike and the answer was to replace which required a new one to be fabricated and flown from Japan!

I suspect the only practical solution will be to replace, could contact eurospares as they have a couple of4200's their breaking.
 

halbe01

Junior Member
Messages
281
Fossy - give Ilyas at Autoffina a call. I had what I think was exactly the same issue as you and once they'd finally diagnosed it properly they fixed it straight away. That was 9 months ago and it's been fine ever since. Mention my name to remind him. I was at the point of selling the car if they'd not managed to fix it - it made it a car I didn't want to drive anymore but as it's all now fixed I'm a happy camper again.

Cheers,
Ben.
 

Elliott653

Member
Messages
1,241
I've just done exactly that, Ben. Ilyas told me that he's done quite a few of these fixes. Takes about four hours. I'm getting mine done in the next week or so. Thanks for the heads up.

:D
 

hodroyd

Member
Messages
14,150
Well done SMF members another fault sorted out quickly and at reasonable cost, brilliant.
 

Fossy

New Member
Messages
45
long shot

This is a long shot I know, but before i take the manifolds off and start to make them better, does anyone have a set off the car which I could see a photo of the inside area at the engine end ?
My query is actually how they are constructed. Are they literally a pipe in a pipe press fit then formed, or are the inner and outer tubes spaced apart throughout their lengths to the cat junction ? Or can someone confirm the set up from memory ?
I can Tig weld anything, any thickness (within reason) but if they are spaced apart throughout, to get the constant spacing during repair may prove a mare.
I usually use self tappers through both tubes throughout to get the spacing when doing straight lengths, then remove one and tig the hole through, then the next etc.

Many thanks

Gary
 

Fossy

New Member
Messages
45
cured it

The problem as iv found out and cured it, was the collector area of the manifolds. Basically, the collectors inlets are 4 stumps of pipe which the outer pipe of the manifolds slot over and get welded, but the inner lining slots into the collector without welding as an interference fit. The inner pipe where slotted into the collector loosens over time and has enough movement to create the rattling.
Many have had the inner pipes welded within the collector box (cat section removed for access), but a simple heat up and center punch to each sorts it (its what maserati did during manufacture of them , have a look). This tightens the whole inner/outer juction and its fixed in 15 mins, no stripping down or welding ! Someone i know did this 5 years ago and after 50,000 miles further, has no issues.
I will post a pic up of what iv done if anyone requires