Engine suddenly shuts off

exporschdrivr

Junior Member
Messages
98
Hello together,

I bought a few weeks ago a 2005 Spyder which have some problems... At first I bought a Thinkdiag OBD Diagnose dongle to read all the codes by myself. But it didn´t work out.

After contacting the seller of the dongle he replies that their software doesn´t cover Maserati. So I could only read generic OBD codes and just can describe what is hapening with the car.

When I unlock the car I can hear the F1 Pump working for a few second. I also can start the engine without issues. I can drive without issues, gear changes everything is not a big deal.

But after 15-20Minutes, I think when everything is on temperature, the engine suddenly shuts down.

Sometimes I can restart the engine at it will run for several minutes, but then it also shuts down by itself. Or just the starter kicks in, but the engine won´t start or as third option nothing will happened. No starter, no cklicking, nothing.

As I was able to read generic codes I get P0806/P0808 and P1586/P1602.

What´s bothering me is that the car runs for 15-20minutes perfect and then all of sudden nothing.

So I have a few questions:
  • Does the clutch work with the pressure of the F1 Pump?
  • How long should the pump run when I unlock the car?
  • how often for how long does the pump run? And does it also run when the engine is off?
  • if the Pump is bad, does it turn the engine off? Because the clutch is also not moving then?

Any advice what I could check are welcome.
 

outrun

Member
Messages
5,017
Air/Fuel/Spark.

Must be one of these. I'd suggest ignition coil after you have described the symptoms. But also air/fuel mixture can cause cut out and rough starting which can be many things such as MAF, hoses, all sorts really.

I also know of a car that had a thermostat issue where when it got hot, it would tell the ecu to cut out and not start.

Hope one of these helps but smarter folks than me will be along shortly.
 

exporschdrivr

Junior Member
Messages
98
Water temperature is fine regarding the gauge.

I forgot to mentioned that the CC light is on when the engine shuts off. But the light is sometimes intermittent on, and sometimes it´s permanent on.

If the CC Lamp is on, the engine won´t start.

Also the engine light is now on. But at first it was the CC light
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
P0806 and P0808 are related to a fault in the clutch position sensor. If the TCU does not know the position of the clutch the car will not start. P1586 is related to the angular position sensors (also in the clutch area). P1602 is low voltage to the engine ECU.

It sounds like you have a lot going on in the clutch area and a flat battery.

To answer your questions:


  • Does the clutch work with the pressure of the F1 Pump? Yes
    How long should the pump run when I unlock the car? Around 5-10 seconds
  • How long should the pump run when I unlock the car? The same amount of time
  • how often for how long does the pump run? And does it also run when the engine is off? The pump runs to build hydraulic pressure, normally around 5 - 10 seconds. It runs when you unlock or open the door with the engine off an periodically with the ignition on as the pressure bleeds through the seals. If it restarts less then 30 seconds after it stopped with the engine off you might have issues with the actuator.
  • if the Pump is bad, does it turn the engine off? Because the clutch is also not moving then? If you can shift into 1st or reverse with the engine off, then the pump is working. If not, then it isn’t.
 

exporschdrivr

Junior Member
Messages
98
Thank you for your response.

After the failure occurs I can´t shift to 1 or reverse with ignition on and engine off.

Should it be possible altough maybe something is wrong with the clutch sensor? If so it would be the pump.... if not....

Edit: I had the battery several times off. Maybe thats why P1602 occures.
 
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Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
In that case it sound like you have one of a few potential issues.

  1. Pump relay failure
  2. Pump failure
  3. Low CC fluid level
  4. High leakage rates on the actuator

But most likely 1 or 2. Charge the battery and change the relay (there are several threads on this, you can use an Alfa Selespeed relay). Check the time between pump operations as above. Listen for pump operation when the fault occurs.

If you are able to identify the power connections of the relay (the larger prongs) you can bridge these when the fault occurs to force the pump to run (for a few seconds!) and see if the fault clears. You may have one or more faults at play.
 

allandwf

Member
Messages
10,958
It may also be the crank sensor. Classic breaking down when they get warm, then will work ok for a another 15 mins or so once cool. Engine will crank but wont start. I have also heard of them not throwing a code.
 

exporschdrivr

Junior Member
Messages
98
Thank you.

Will the pump run the same time ammount every time? Or is the first run the longest and then it´s shorter, because the pressure drop is not as high as at the unlocking the car.

So I could unlocked it, open the door and turn the key to ignition on, close the door and stay outside the car. After a few minutes I should hear the pump again?
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,547
The pump runs as long as it needs to to keep the pressure between the min and max. It varies. But yes, you should be able to hear the pump going on and off.

C
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
So I could unlocked it, open the door and turn the key to ignition on, close the door and stay outside the car. After a few minutes I should hear the pump again?

Yes. Also listen to the sound of the pump, if it sounds laboured this could be caused by pitting on the contacts of the relay causing voltage drop. But make sure your battery is charged and in good condition, as you have had an issue with that.
 

exporschdrivr

Junior Member
Messages
98
Okay, thank you all for your comments.

At first I will buy the relay and replace it.

Second I will check the pump. At first when the vehicle is cold. Then I will let it idle until the failure occurs... The F1 pump should have the same behavior as before although some sensor are maybe bad? If so, it´s not the pump and maybe one of the mentioned sensors. If not, it´s the pump?

Is the crank position sensor and the angular position sensor the same?
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
That’s it. You’ve got it.

the crank position sensor is different and does cause a failure to start. But with your codes, you should start with what you have planned.
 

exporschdrivr

Junior Member
Messages
98
I checked the pictures I made as I was scanning the car. The P1586 was the first one that came back after deleting the codes.

So I think maybe the others where caused by it?!

I already searched for the angular sensor at eurospares.co.uk.

The Partnumber is 182194. It seemed Bosch is the manufactur of this sensor. The Bosch Partnumber is 0261210198. I will also order it just to try it.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
I checked the pictures I made as I was scanning the car. The P1586 was the first one that came back after deleting the codes.

So I think maybe the others where caused by it?!

I already searched for the angular sensor at eurospares.co.uk.

The Partnumber is 182194. It seemed Bosch is the manufactur of this sensor. The Bosch Partnumber is 0261210198. I will also order it just to try it.

P1586 if defined as an “engine off request from clutch ECU”. It is not related to the crank position sensor. The only engine related code you have is the low voltage to the engine ECU - which is low battery charge.
 

allandwf

Member
Messages
10,958
I checked the pictures I made as I was scanning the car. The P1586 was the first one that came back after deleting the codes.

So I think maybe the others where caused by it?!

I already searched for the angular sensor at eurospares.co.uk.

The Partnumber is 182194. It seemed Bosch is the manufactur of this sensor. The Bosch Partnumber is 0261210198. I will also order it just to try it.
That's the problem with codes, determining which is the cause and the others the effects.
 

exporschdrivr

Junior Member
Messages
98
P1586 if defined as an “engine off request from clutch ECU”. It is not related to the crank position sensor. The only engine related code you have is the low voltage to the engine ECU - which is low battery charge.

It´s related to the angular sensor you mentioned in Post #4 or did I get it wrong?
 

exporschdrivr

Junior Member
Messages
98
Number 53

Do I have to take the intake out for changing the sensor or is it at the back of the engine? It´s not quite clear from the picture....

Edit: One further question... The P0806 doesn´t shutt off the engine. This failure is decribed in the thread of @Nahayiah here. Does P0808 request to shut down the engine?

If the answer is also no, then it should be the angular sensor for sure.

edit1: it needs 5Min and 55seconds until the pump start pressureing a second time after unlocking the car and ignition on when its cold. Is that good or bad?

edit2: where is the sensor? and on the last one with the red circle: is there a cable missing?
 

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