Engine Oil

[mikem]

Is there a general consensus on the best engine oil to use for a 2004, 4200 facelift. I have a slight oil leak and have now reached a point where I need to top it up. But what with? all opinions appreciated.

 

[allandwf]

Is there a general consensus on the best engine oil to use for a 2004, 4200 facelift. I have a slight oil leak and have now reached a point where I need to top it up. But what with? all opinions appreciated.

Hopefully the same as what is in it, if you know.

 

[mikem]

Hopefully the same as what is in it, if you know.

I don't , that is why I am asking.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 is the best oil. Any 5w40 oil will do. Its better to have oil in the car than fret about which is best. I've got two x 4 litre cans in my garage.

 

[Zep]

Fully synthetic 5w40 to spec API CMCC G5. But everyone uses the Shell as it has a dancing donkey on it!

 

[MRichards]

When you consider that the 3200 engine was designed over 30 years ago when the quality of oils was a mere shadow of those now available,any oil is now good enough. This engine does not run hot so synthetic oils are a waste of money. The Maserati manual specifies an SAE 60 oil presumably to cut down the sometimes excessive oil losses of 1 litre per 1000 miles claimed by Maserati. My engine does not use oil so SAE40 is fine. It depends on the coldest ambient temperatures in your locality when you specify winter grade,e.g. 5W is OK down to -5 C. I would guess 10W would be adequate for most. If you are spectacularly anal about the oil for your car then Mobil 1 is by far the best oil available in retail packs.

 

[Zep]

When you consider that the 3200 engine was designed over 30 years ago when the quality of oils was a mere shadow of those now available,any oil is now good enough. This engine does not run hot so synthetic oils are a waste of money. The Maserati manual specifies an SAE 60 oil presumably to cut down the sometimes excessive oil losses of 1 litre per 1000 miles claimed by Maserati. My engine does not use oil so SAE40 is fine. It depends on the coldest ambient temperatures in your locality when you specify winter grade,e.g. 5W is OK down to -5 C. I would guess 10W would be adequate for most. If you are spectacularly anal about the oil for your car then Mobil 1 is by far the best oil available in retail packs.

The topic is related to the 4200 engine as opposed to the 3200.

Regarding suitability of oil grades, this is very much down to the design and use of the engine. The SAE grades relate to a viscosity curve, with each oil tested for flow through an fixed orifice a different temperatures. So the suitability of a grade of oil and a given temperature will relate to a particular engine design and the size of the various orifices within, it’s not really possible to generalise that 5w is ok for -5c.

Synthetic oils are not simply better because of resistance to high temperatures, they are less susceptible to ash contamination, oxidation and more resistant to the breakdown of the long chain polymers that vary the viscosity from hot to cold. On a turbo engine they are particularly useful as under sustained load the oil can experience extremely high temperatures in the turbo housing even if the overall oil or engine temperature is not high.

Any decision about varying from manufacturers specification for oil grades should be taken with care.

 

[mikem]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[safrane]

Oh god... not another 'Oil' thread!!!!

Last time in quickly turned in a black oily blood bath!

 

[MRichards]

Well,here goes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the black oily blood bath.

The SAE number relates to the viscosity at a standard temperature and,as you say,is selected with reference to the bearing loads in an engine which may,or may not,be a consequence of close tolerances. Just think cam shafts.
A quick & dirty fix for oil loss past the compression & oil scraper piston rings may be a higher viscosity oil vis a vis the SAE60 spec. on the 3200 engine. (BTW,isn't the 4200 just a stretched version of the 3200)

The second number,the winter grade,such as 5W is a measure of the ability of the oil to flow (more correctly,it's ability to be pumped) at low temperatures. Do not confuse it with the SAE number.

Synthetic oils are just the chemicals which replace mineral oil,originally used in aviation for their superior resistance to heat stress. The quality of the oil should not be confused with the properties of the additives used in the lubricating oil formulation. Ashless additives are now in universal use so we don't see those chalky deposits in the combustion chamber. Both mineral & synthetic oils contain no ash,it was the older additives which contributed the ash. Oxidation inhibitors have been important additives for many years with the advent of higher engine temperatures. Synthetic oil based on esters are inherently more resistant to oxidation,however,it's the additives which do the work.
Viscosity index improvers based on polyolefins created the multigrade oils such as 40-10W etc. way back in the 60's. These polymers have been refined to the point where they are extremely stable and it is now possible to keep the viscosity index in specification for the life of the oil. The polymers were susceptible to shear stress but the new additives are virtually indestructable.

Engine manufacturers are not god-like,they don't know anything more than the average Joe in the car industry so they take the advice of the oil & additive experts. These guys get their knowledge by wrecking a lot of test engines before they can formulate an oil meeting the strict SAE requirements. Anything you buy in a pretty retail pack is backed by a lot of expensive test work,there aren't any shonky blends. So I'm saying that you can use any brand and you don't have to stick to the manufacturer's recommendations as long as you make a sensible choice as a replacement grade. I have used SAE 30 in the 3200 engine with no adverse consequences.
And the reason is that modern oils are formulated to flow more quickly through bearing gaps rather than be biased towards a "cushioning" effect by establishing an indestructable boundary layer,they seem to work better this way.
End of sermon,you may all now take a bath.

 

[conaero]

Amen

 

[MRichards]

I'm really disappointed.................where are all the oil deniers & pedlars of urban myths ? I was looking forward to a bit of good old raping & pillaging,smiting of mine enemies. B*gger !

 

[lifes2short]

I'm really disappointed.................where are all the oil deniers & pedlars of urban myths ? I was looking forward to a bit of good old raping & pillaging,smiting of mine enemies. B*gger !

think my wife would like to pillage the locals flour and yeast, I'm not sure about the buggery though, cute mutt as your avatar

 

[del mar]

There was a guy on the other forum who would always go about using the oil the manufacturer had specified. They developed they the engine and they know the best oil for it. Nothing to do with tie ins or sponsorship deals.
The Detomaso has agip as a recommended oil by the manufacturer, despite having a bmw engine....

 

[lifes2short]

There was a guy on the other forum who would always go about using the oil the manufacturer had specified. They developed they the engine and they know the best oil for it. Nothing to do with tie ins or sponsorship deals.
The Detomaso has agip as a recommended oil by the manufacturer, despite having a bmw engine....

agreed, it's a load of tosh, any good quality oil for standard motors would do, i tend to use Fuchs Titan race pro r for the more highly stressed engines and mineral oil for the older standard classics

 

[Oneball]

There was a guy on the other forum who would always go about using the oil the manufacturer had specified. They developed they the engine and they know the best oil for it. Nothing to do with tie ins or sponsorship deals.
The Detomaso has agip as a recommended oil by the manufacturer, despite having a bmw engine....

You’ve got a Guara?

 

[Oishi]

The way I look at it is this. The manufacturer has to warrant the engine for an amount of time/miles. They don't want to replace engines on their dime. They recommend the oil that will make the engine last thru the warranty period, you pay for the oil, they pay for the engine. I go with the best I can find.

 

[lifes2short]

The way I look at it is this. The manufacturer has to warrant the engine for an amount of time/miles. They don't want to replace engines on their dime. They recommend the oil that will make the engine last thru the warranty period, you pay for the oil, they pay for the engine. I go with the best I can find.

I wouldn't consider oil as a primary cause of any potential engine failure as long as it meets the same spec and changed at correct intervals and not necessarily by main stealers, it's all the cheap cr4p components that manufactures use these days that's the cause of some engine failures, clearly recalls required but ignore and blame other factors

 

[del mar]

You’ve got a Guara?

Yes, BMW engine and Audi gearbox, but the manual is awash with AGIP products...

 

[wicked1]

Well,here goes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the black oily blood bath.

The SAE number relates to the viscosity at a standard temperature and,as you say,is selected with reference to the bearing loads in an engine which may,or may not,be a consequence of close tolerances. Just think cam shafts.
A quick & dirty fix for oil loss past the compression & oil scraper piston rings may be a higher viscosity oil vis a vis the SAE60 spec. on the 3200 engine. (BTW,isn't the 4200 just a stretched version of the 3200)

The second number,the winter grade,such as 5W is a measure of the ability of the oil to flow (more correctly,it's ability to be pumped) at low temperatures. Do not confuse it with the SAE number.

Synthetic oils are just the chemicals which replace mineral oil,originally used in aviation for their superior resistance to heat stress. The quality of the oil should not be confused with the properties of the additives used in the lubricating oil formulation. Ashless additives are now in universal use so we don't see those chalky deposits in the combustion chamber. Both mineral & synthetic oils contain no ash,it was the older additives which contributed the ash. Oxidation inhibitors have been important additives for many years with the advent of higher engine temperatures. Synthetic oil based on esters are inherently more resistant to oxidation,however,it's the additives which do the work.
Viscosity index improvers based on polyolefins created the multigrade oils such as 40-10W etc. way back in the 60's. These polymers have been refined to the point where they are extremely stable and it is now possible to keep the viscosity index in specification for the life of the oil. The polymers were susceptible to shear stress but the new additives are virtually indestructable.

Engine manufacturers are not god-like,they don't know anything more than the average Joe in the car industry so they take the advice of the oil & additive experts. These guys get their knowledge by wrecking a lot of test engines before they can formulate an oil meeting the strict SAE requirements. Anything you buy in a pretty retail pack is backed by a lot of expensive test work,there aren't any shonky blends. So I'm saying that you can use any brand and you don't have to stick to the manufacturer's recommendations as long as you make a sensible choice as a replacement grade. I have used SAE 30 in the 3200 engine with no adverse consequences.
And the reason is that modern oils are formulated to flow more quickly through bearing gaps rather than be biased towards a "cushioning" effect by establishing an indestructable boundary layer,they seem to work better this way.
End of sermon,you may all now take a bath.

Just for you information, the 3200 engine and 4200 engines are completely different.