Diagnosing the F1 System

tonycharente

Member
Messages
182
I started putting together some information on the theory and basic diagnosing of the F1 system for some of the most common fault. I expect this to be a somewhat living document as I add more. If theres specific areas/failures youd like me to cover in more detail please let me know as well!

https://italianautotech.com/2020/10/15/diagnosing-the-f1-system/
PS I would like to apologise to Tulit for hi-jacking his original post that pushed me towards searching for an X431, and to thank him for all his excellent articles - very helpful indeed !
 

tulit

Member
Messages
110
PS I would like to apologise to Tulit for hi-jacking his original post that pushed me towards searching for an X431, and to thank him for all his excellent articles - very helpful indeed !

Not a problem! I think its relevant discussion.
 

tonycharente

Member
Messages
182
As promised here is the update on my purchase.

Bottom line is: I’m delighted!

Delivery took a day or two longer than they'd stated, but still pretty quick.
It was supposed to have been delivered from the UK, but as far as I can tell it was shipped, via "4PX" (a Chinese shipping company), from the Czech Republic to DHL in Germany before being delivered by the French post office. No matter, it arrived safely in pretty good time and without my having been charged any import duties.
I received an "X-431 PROS MINI V3.0", which I believe to be the latest model. The packing list was dated 25th August 2020.
It is physically different from the previous model - no "selfie" camera, no volume controls, but twice the memory (2 GB) and storage (32GB).
As received it already had all the software modules loaded - including Maserati and Ferrari - I was able to do a DTC scan without registering it.
No problem registering it using the password number provided.
I updated ALL the software (took ages as there are so many makes and models).
As purchased the Maserati software was version V11.00 : updated to V11.15.
As purchased the Ferrari software was version V10.85 : updated to V10.95
The Alfa/Fiat group software was version V36.05 : updated to V36.30.
I have a December 2005 (2006 model year) 4200 coupé cambiocorsa.
I confirm that it was able to read all the cambiocorsa stuff (I read PIS, “New Closed Clutch Position” (NCCP), “Self-Calibrated Closed Clutch Position” (S-CCCP) and % Clutch Wear), and I looked to be able to write a PIS of my choice, but I didn't try that as my car drives fine - and "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" (!!!).
I'd seen that these measurements should be taken after a decent drive using the gears - so I measured everything twice (cold and hot). Also I read everything both using the Maserati Gransport/Coupé/Spyder module and using the Ferrari F430 module. My late 4200 is "CFC231" which the F430 module includes, whereas the Maserati module only has CFC 201. In all cases it gave me the same PIS (4.97). However the Clutch Wear percentage differed as between both hot and cold, and also between “CFC231” and “CFC201”. In both cases the CFC231 readings were more pessimistic but corresponded almost exactly to the "(S-CCCP minus NCCP) divided by 5.6" calculation. The CFC201 readings had the same S-CCCP and NCCP figures as the CFC231, but, it would appear, the wrong calculation. In all cases the hot readings were less pessimistic than the cold ones, due to a slightly lower S-CCCP. No idea why...
Taking the hot CFC231 readings I got 18.71, 18.39 and 5.71%, this latter being exactly in line with the "divide by 5.6" calculation. My clutch was replaced at 2885 kms ago, so that’s a rate of clutch wear of about 2% per 1000 km, which seems about right to me.

Hope I’ve not rambled on too much…

Cheers

Tony
 

tonycharente

Member
Messages
182
PS to my long post...
I'm also posting on one of the French forums where a member had previously pointed out that the Maserati clutch wear calculation appears to be dividing by 7 instead of 5.6, hence being much more optimistic. Does anyone have any idea where they (Launch) may have got 7 from ?
 

spkennyuk

Member
Messages
5,932
Hello
Owner of a very late 2005 (Year Model 2006) 4200 Cambiocorsa coupe, I would like to buy a genuine "Launch X431 Pro(s) Mini".

But where to buy a "Launch X431 Pro(s) Mini"? They are for sale on Amazon, on eBay, and various websites but not from the official Launch sites in Europe.

I discovered that there is indeed a real X431 PRO MINI model produced by the real Launch, but that it is not marketed in Europe. Their distribution in Europe is done by (or via) Launch Germany. I couldn't find any trace of the LAUNCH X431 PRO MINI on their website or on their affiliates' websites - logical, they don't sell it.

You can buy an X431 PRO S from Launch in Europe but it costs twice as much and we don't know if it would work the same for our Maseratis.

I also learned that the X432 PRO MINI model is made for the Asian market.

What I didn't find is a X431 PRO MINI seller with a physical address in Europe. All online listings (whether eBay or Amazon or on the various websites, and this in several countries) would appear to be shipped from China - with "86-" phone numbers.

How can you be sure (1) that it is a real Launch and, whilst I'm asking, (2) that it is a 2020 model?

Who bought one recently, please? And where?

Many thanks
Tony

PS I live in SW France but I don't mind buying in any country.

Obviously you have bought a launch already from your update on this thread but i can answer a couple of the points you raised in this post.

The larger tablet x431 pro 3 v2 does work with Maserati Ferrari etc. Its the big brother to the mini pro and the main difference between the two are the specs of the tablets. The diagnostic software itself is identical. The mini pro may be missing the options of remote customer diagnostic as an example which you can do with the larget tablet.

The machine production date doesnt matter too much as this only dictates the preloaded software version numbers. Included in the price of a new unit is 2 years free updates from when you register the product. So for example an june 2020 machine and a november 2020 machine bought at the sametime will have the exact same modules available once you activate them and install the latest updates.

If anyone is thinking of buying 2nd user the key thing for our cars 4200 and onwards is the Maserati module must be V11.0 onwards. The latest version is v11.15 from memory. Anything before that and you wont be able to write the PIS setting correctly as you could not enter a decimal point.

X431 Pro mini is around £700

X431 pro3 v2 onwards is around £1200 and goes upwards depending on which additional adapters you want for specific makes or golo type adapters if for example you own a garage and want to remote diagnose a customers car.

Both machine work. The biggest issue is the updates are currently £650 approx for 2 years of update in the UK after your initial 2 years are up and thats for either machine.

I believe in mainland europe you can buy a 1 year update for around £350 but they do vary the price.

Just factor in if your buying new to make sure you get the latest updates just before your two years from registration date is up.

If you want to keep them bang upto date after that its almost worth buying a new tablet for what they charge for the updates.

Worth noting as well that the licence is tied to the dongles serial number. If your tablet breaks you can just use any old tablet and download the software without issue. If however your dongle gets damaged , breaks or is lost then its a different story. If its within the 2 years of your updates package then im sure launch would let you purchase a new dongle and transfer the remaining updates package across to it. Outside of a current update package i suspect they wont be as helpful.

You can as somebody else mentioned in the thread have the tablet and also download a copy of the software to an android phone so you can keep it with you and just load the vehicle packs you need or the full system. You do have to use the same dongle though for the license reasons mentioned.
 
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spkennyuk

Member
Messages
5,932
Tony
Maybe bring it along to the next forum meet? You might recoup some investment by reading the palm of nervous trident owners harbouring fault codes. Can I go first please?

Im based in Lancs and have the launch system. If anybody does get stuck then im happy to help. I think there are a few of us on here with either launch or alternatives that can read fault codes reset air bags etc.

Might be worth a sticky with a list of members in which areas of the UK they are to help other members in their area.
 
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spkennyuk

Member
Messages
5,932
PS to my long post...
I'm also posting on one of the French forums where a member had previously pointed out that the Maserati clutch wear calculation appears to be dividing by 7 instead of 5.6, hence being much more optimistic. Does anyone have any idea where they (Launch) may have got 7 from ?

I think it was using 7 upto v10.90 they seem to have dialed it in a bit more now. You can also use the ferrari software to read and diagnose the TCU without issue.

Any clutch used reading you get is not going to be 100% accurate whichever diagnostic tool you use. Its also bases it calculation from the measurements from when the clutch was installed and how accurate they were.

If somebody wanted to have the clutch show a lower used amount then it can be done by tweaking the intial clutch measurements. Im not suggesting that anybody has or would do that but it certainly can be done. At best the clutch wear rate gives you an idea of how much life is left in the clutch. Previous service history and clutch change date /mileage gives you a much better idea.
 
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spkennyuk

Member
Messages
5,932
Interesting.
Can it read and reset the air bag warning light?

Hi yes it can. I dont think your a million miles away from me so if you need the use of one then let me know. Im in lancs. I think we may have met at one of the Oulton park events a few years ago.
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
Hi yes it can. I dont think your a million miles away from me so if you need the use of one then let me know. Im in lancs. I think we may have met at one of the Oulton park events a few years ago.
Thanks that would be great, I'll drop you a PM.
:)
 

spkennyuk

Member
Messages
5,932
PS to my long post...
I'm also posting on one of the French forums where a member had previously pointed out that the Maserati clutch wear calculation appears to be dividing by 7 instead of 5.6, hence being much more optimistic. Does anyone have any idea where they (Launch) may have got 7 from ?

Just done a check on what the maserati and ferrari modules are using in their clutch wear calculations as the are assuming incorrect throw out measurements.

Maserati v11.15 latest version is using 7mm

Ferrari module v10.95 is using 10.178

The correct figure should be 5.56mm so the clutch readings will always be on the optimistic side until they change the formula.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,120
I have used my X431Pros Mini here in France several times on different makes and it performs exceptionally well.
I like how I have it set up in my business name and can save professionally the diagnostic session and any data I have looked at.
When the updates are up I will buy another and sell the current one.
I like how the dongle is stored on the tablet and you get an alarm to remove it from the car so the chance of damage is minimal.
I also have a Autel which is a few years old and a Humzor which for €230 is a very good piece of kit.
 

Simon1963

Member
Messages
819
Good morning all. I’ve got my 57th birthday to celebrate and it looks as if the birthday fairy has been. I’m hoping she came here via the Halfords tool section.