Control Arm MOT Fail.

philw696

Member
Messages
25,114
Just expected tolerances to have gotten better, is this the same on the Japanese stuff ?
Possibly on something like a Nissan GT-R or a Honda NSX but the first time I came across the shims was working on Maseratis.
 

RichTaps

Member
Messages
199
The shims are required to facilitate adjustment and take into account movement of the suspension and subframe rubber bushings (and other factors) over time. If these components were solidly mounted (a race car for example) you may be able to get away with less or minimal adjustments.

I'm pretty sure that almost all road cars come with some kind of alignment adjustment, it just varies for each design. For example, instead of Shims some suspension designs use camber bolts to change alignment.
 

Soenvious

Member
Messages
128
Why are so many shims needed?
My thoughts exactly. These shims seem to be for Caster angle adjustment, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Camber is adjusted by shims behind the Bottom Control Arm mounting brackets, Toe-in/out is adjusted via the Rear Tie Rod, I think:confused:.
The other side has an equal amount of shims either side of the control arm bushings.
The mounting bracket on the Subframe measures 66mm inside, the Control Arm bush end is 56mm, lots of play.
 

Soenvious

Member
Messages
128
Because of my keen interest in this topic at present, I notice there is an ongoing debate on the 'Other' forum regarding re-furbishment of worn Control Arms.
We've now got two Companies offering the service but the main concern is safety and the validity of repair.
Would it ever be classed as a viable alternative? Bearing in mind the wealth of pattern parts for all cars, can we ever be sure that these parts are safety tested, or is OEM the only way to go?
Didn't Eurospares re-manufacture some of these arms in the past, were they tested?
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
Legality and quality are two important but seperate points.

Legally, providing the manufacturer or refurbisher holds valid insurance and deems their parts to be of merchantable quality, they are good to go.

Quality wise, they will only sell a few if they turn out to be made of chocolate, so that is the commercial driver for having a good product. It’s a small market and word does get around.

The Eurospares parts were, to my understanding anyway, made by the original manufacturer, Ocap, who also make plenty of pattern parts for the aftermarket.

If this were something I was tackling, I would go with a refurbisher but carefully inspect before fitting.
 

SteveM

Member
Messages
540
Thanks for the input, I think :rolleyes:. I think it will take me a good few hours but considering I can't get a replacement 'off the shelf ' I don't feel as if I'm under pressure. Will definitely consider ARB bushes, do you recommend OEM or Polybush type?

Superperformance had a batch of ARB bushes manufactured which probably sit somewhere between OEM rubber and hard poly bushes (this applies to 3200 which sit on top of sub frame so you can only unbolt U clamps when subframe dropped.
 

RichTaps

Member
Messages
199
VPS in Slovenia appear to work with major OEM's and have military manufacturing contracts. They've also done lots of control arm remanufacturing for Gallardo's and other high end cars. I'll need to see the finished product, but the above are all positive signs to me.

I think there are certain people on forums that get hung up on things not being a "valid" repair. As Zep says, these guys need to hold insurance. I'd be more inclined to trust these particular refurbished items than cheap Chinese made pattern parts often available for other cars

Edit - without wishing to come across as a VPS fanboy, they also appear to make bits for planes! Which gives me a warm a fuzzy feeling.
 
Last edited:

NickP

Member
Messages
1,623
The offending part is now out and ready for replacement. Not too bad a job actually, if Maserati had measured their bolt lengths it would have been done in no time. The biggest problem was removing one of the pivot bolts (rearward most) which fouls on the underbody. I lowered the subframe and it squeezed out. Bring on the replacement.....please.

I'm looking to do this as I need to replace both arms and the ARB rubbers. Just curious if this is something I can tackle and what lifting gear I might require? I'm hoping to just use what I have which is a few jacks and stands etc. Am I mad? If its too much I'll take it in somewhere, any idea what they might charge to drop the frame and replace all the parts?
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
I'm looking to do this as I need to replace both arms and the ARB rubbers. Just curious if this is something I can tackle and what lifting gear I might require? I'm hoping to just use what I have which is a few jacks and stands etc. Am I mad? If its too much I'll take it in somewhere, any idea what they might charge to drop the frame and replace all the parts?

If you are confident and have ingenuity you will be able to do it. I did mine on stands and rolling around on the floor. I now have a lift, mainly because it was such a pig.
 

NickP

Member
Messages
1,623
Thanks Zep, I'm gonna get a gearbox jack for this, a lift would be lovely, I might take photos of me bleeding and swearing while I do this.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,114
Thanks Zep, I'm gonna get a gearbox jack for this, a lift would be lovely, I might take photos of me bleeding and swearing while I do this.
Best investment you can make if you have the space even better is having two :)
 

Soenvious

Member
Messages
128
Thanks Zep, I'm gonna get a gearbox jack for this, a lift would be lovely, I might take photos of me bleeding and swearing while I do this.
I replaced the upper right rear, using axle stands and trolley jack. The awkward part is removing the rearmost pivot bolt from the control arm, it fouls on the boot floor area of bodywork. I undid the rear subframe mounting bolts on that side and supported the lowering with a small trolley jack, just enough to wiggle the bolt out.
Be aware when the arm comes out there are a lot of shim washers at both pivot mounts, try and keep them in the same order.
Good luck:)
 

NickP

Member
Messages
1,623
Well I'm now knee deep in this. Sub frame dropped, ARB, Coils and Sub Frame mounts in for blasting and coating. I've new ARB bushes, new upper control arms, new drop links, new brake pipes and new brake hoses to fit... I'm also going to POR15 the subframe while its down. Fun fun fun

Things that have gone wrong, snapped bolt in hub for the ABS sensor, snapped brake hose coupling in a brake calliper, one control arm bolt is seized and needs cutting out, destroyed both seal rings in the exhausts at the tail pipe join and the flanges fell to bits too.

I wonder if its worth bothering with it all sometimes!
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,114
Well I'm now knee deep in this. Sub frame dropped, ARB, Coils and Sub Frame mounts in for blasting and coating. I've new ARB bushes, new upper control arms, new drop links, new brake pipes and new brake hoses to fit... I'm also going to POR15 the subframe while its down. Fun fun fun

Things that have gone wrong, snapped bolt in hub for the ABS sensor, snapped brake hose coupling in a brake calliper, one control arm bolt is seized and needs cutting out, destroyed both seal rings in the exhausts at the tail pipe join and the flanges fell to bits too.

I wonder if its worth bothering with it all sometimes!
Fair play to you especially if you're doing it on the floor.
Respect as you've owned the car for a few years too now too.
They can be stressful at times and from my point of view if I have given a price for doing the job you end up working for nothing at times.
Good Luck.
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
Well I'm now knee deep in this. Sub frame dropped, ARB, Coils and Sub Frame mounts in for blasting and coating. I've new ARB bushes, new upper control arms, new drop links, new brake pipes and new brake hoses to fit... I'm also going to POR15 the subframe while its down. Fun fun fun

Things that have gone wrong, snapped bolt in hub for the ABS sensor, snapped brake hose coupling in a brake calliper, one control arm bolt is seized and needs cutting out, destroyed both seal rings in the exhausts at the tail pipe join and the flanges fell to bits too.

I wonder if its worth bothering with it all sometimes!
What year is your 4200?
I went through all this in 2016 and 2017 doing both subframes on my 2005 GS. one subframe each winter. replaced a lot of parts / blasting and powder coating the rest.
all good fun on your hands and knees!
Add a few pics
 

NickP

Member
Messages
1,623
Well the fun continues, the upper arm bolts are no longer available, so the one I was going to cut out I may now need to save.... Anyone know of an alternative? I guess I can take a good one in somewhere and get them to find an equivalent size / thread and steel?