'Check transmission go to dealer' diagnostic help please.

WyattQP said:
Sorry for kind of hijacking the thread, but it was interesting to hear your opinions about time spent diagnosing vs. time spent replacing the parts most likely to be malfunctioning, and how customers might feel about that. And the comment that diagnostics is now often handled by one specialist at a shop.

Here in Canada, my experience has been that many dealerships and chain repair stores encourage minimizing diagnostic time in favour of replacing all the parts that might be responsible. It seems like the strategy is to both speed up service and increase profits. It's becoming more and more difficult to find independent garages with mechanics who will spend the time (and have the experience and knowledge) to thoroughly diagnose a problem, especially on older vehicles.

I'm also finding that there's a serious knowledge gap for older cars in the latest generation of mechanics. Local Maserati dealerships often come right out and say they don't really have a mechanic who's familiar with an M139 or even M145 Maserati, and suggest it might be best to take the car to an independent. Whether they really don't have mechanics that are familiar with older models, or if working on older cars is just more likely to result in callbacks and is less profitable, I really don't know.

Mechanics who excel at problem-solving and like to work on older vehicles are becoming harder to find, and it seems like the ones who are retiring haven't been able to pass on their skills to enough apprentices. It makes sense for someone fresh out of trade school to see that mastering the newest automotive tech is going to give them plentiful job opportunities for years to come, but I worry that not enough are seeing the demand for expertise with older vehicles.

Curious what those of you in the UK and Europe are experiencing.
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It's a good discussion. Let's not worry about hijacking a thread its just a neandering river.

I wouldn't have a problem with a garage/shop guessing (based on likelyhood) as long as they got it right. I would be fuming if they got it wrong and then tried to pass the buck. To an extent this is why I not just work on my own cars, but why i am here active in a forum in the first place.

For me a forum is all about knowledge share, we are all petrol heads (gearheads/gas monkeys) trying to solve our own problems and enjoying the ride. Im still in my infancy with maserati but give me another 5 years and I should know something.

Back to the diagnosing and charging/paying for it. Everyone should watch this video below. Royalty automotive put out some great videos. If you watch some of their videos you will see they diagnosis skills are a 10 out of 10. I can get around older vehicles no problem it's the newer ones I struggle with and im learning quite a bit from royalty and here of course!

As far as I am concerned whether I as a customer or a shop owner I would expect to pay or charge a labour rate for diagnosis and repair. If a customer wants to do it cheaper....they can fix it themselves.

In the UK mechanics are finally starting to get a good wage. I have seen some mechanics jobs at £40000 or more....that will bring the right people who have the skillz.

 
Interesting dialogue for sure and my son also a fully skilled mechanic is about to start a new job on 40K but it's still poor considering you need your own tools to do the job and you've got thousands invested in said tools.
There will be many on here earning a lot more than 40K for sure.

One thing that's getting unpleasant for me speaking with people I keep in touch with is many workplaces are putting tool storage into the workshop that you then remove your own boxes and put your tools into.
At the end of the day the boxes are locked and the managers keep the keys.
The only workshops I've worked in where I lock up my tools has been Main Dealers and that was to keep the Sales guys and Service Manager out.
They are My Tools.
I've had several Service Managers and not one has any tools because as soon as they are out of the workshop they sell them just like they've sold out in the first place.
Not meaning to be controversial, well just a little ;)
 
philw696 said:
Interesting dialogue for sure and my son also a fully skilled mechanic is about to start a new job on 40K but it's still poor considering you need your own tools to do the job and you've got thousands invested in said tools.
There will be many on here earning a lot more than 40K for sure.

One thing that's getting unpleasant for me speaking with people I keep in touch with is many workplaces are putting tool storage into the workshop that you then remove your own boxes and put your tools into.
At the end of the day the boxes are locked and the managers keep the keys.
The only workshops I've worked in where I lock up my tools has been Main Dealers and that was to keep the Sales guys and Service Manager out.
They are My Tools.
I've had several Service Managers and not one has any tools because as soon as they are out of the workshop they sell them just like they've sold out in the first place.
Not meaning to be controversial, well just a little ;)
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I agree if you are expected to supply your own tools to carry out work for a business....then the wage needs to reflect this.

My experience of the motor trade and tools was the other way around BUT i only worked for or owned small businesses.

My experience was

1. Worked at a German Autohouse in Texas. As an Apprentice at 16 I had no tools I used my bosses tools. I moved back to the UK at 18

2. Worked for a VW specialist. Same again expected to use bosses tools...but after 3 months I brought my big tool box from my garage which I had been filling

3. I later on employed two apprentices in my own garage. Probably from my experience I did not expect them to have or use their own tools. They used mine and the business bought any tools needed to do a job. They did start buying mac, snap on, facom and halfords tools but it was not expected. I think they just thought they should.

I appreciate your experience was totally the other way around!
 
strictly said:
I basically had a rule and the rule was i would diagnose and fix the problem such that the customer could never call me again for the same problem BUT I could only achieve that by not caring what it cost. The cost was the cost!
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In my opinion, having the correct diagnosis is the guaranteed way to fix the problem, so it essentially achieves the same result but it also takes care of the cost, because you don't have to change unnecessary parts.
The way I see it is that mechanics should treat a customer's car like if it was their own. I doubt a mechanic wouldn't care about the cost if it were his own car.

The problem is that making good diagnosis comes from either a long experience, a deep understanding of the system + good logic, or sometimes just pure luck. And it's something that most customers will take for granted, they assume every mechanic should do a perfect diagnosis every time. Only a connoisseur will respect you for providing great diagnostics over throwing tons of new parts at a problem.
That being said, I'm not a mechanic, only a humble DIYer.

The best way to make sure the diagnosis is correct is to list all the symptoms you noticed and make sure the part you plan on replacing will fix every single one of them. If there is one single symptom that isn't covered, then this part probably isn't the culprit.
 
philw696 said:
Interesting dialogue for sure and my son also a fully skilled mechanic is about to start a new job on 40K but it's still poor considering you need your own tools to do the job and you've got thousands invested in said tools.
There will be many on here earning a lot more than 40K for sure.

One thing that's getting unpleasant for me speaking with people I keep in touch with is many workplaces are putting tool storage into the workshop that you then remove your own boxes and put your tools into.
At the end of the day the boxes are locked and the managers keep the keys.
The only workshops I've worked in where I lock up my tools has been Main Dealers and that was to keep the Sales guys and Service Manager out.
They are My Tools.
I've had several Service Managers and not one has any tools because as soon as they are out of the workshop they sell them just like they've sold out in the first place.
Not meaning to be controversial, well just a little ;)
Click to expand...
Wow. Having a manager lock up your tools at the end of the day in the shop's cabinet is pretty outrageous.
 
WyattQP said:
Wow. Having a manager lock up your tools at the end of the day in the shop's cabinet is pretty outrageous.
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It's certainly causing some debate.
Here in mainland Europe tools are provided by the Employer for you to work.
French people that come to see me are amazed at all my tools I have.
When I've been employed it used to bug me that I had to ask permission to do some work on my own car after hours in the workshop using my own tools.
 
philw696 said:
It's certainly causing some debate.
Here in mainland Europe tools are provided by the Employer for you to work.
French people that come to see me are amazed at all my tools I have.
When I've been employed it used to bug me that I had to ask permission to do some work on my own car after hours in the workshop using my own tools.
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I suppose someone took a risk and got badly hurt working on their own car after hours, and it became a liability issue for the employers.

All of the DIY garage space rentals for non-mechanics in my city disappeared a few years ago, when the insurance companies suddenly raised liability insurance rates so much they could no longer make a decent profit. It sure sucks being on your back in the snow under your jacked up 90s daily driver and a rigged-up tarp, trying to keep your fingers from freezing. But at least nobody is locking up my tools.
 
So, it's been a while. Car has been stuck in Shiltech since last September trying to trace and repair the gearbox fault. Jeff is a tad baffled and thinks it might be the gearbox ECU, so we removed that and sent it off to Dibs to see if he could diagnose and /or fix it, but sadly not. I am now thinking it might need a new ECU and that will need to be coded by a main dealer - unhappy about that, but there you go. Before I dive into buying a new ECU and all that entails, has anyone got any alternative suggestions?
 
Yeti said:
So, it's been a while. Car has been stuck in Shiltech since last September trying to trace and repair the gearbox fault. Jeff is a tad baffled and thinks it might be the gearbox ECU, so we removed that and sent it off to Dibs to see if he could diagnose and /or fix it, but sadly not. I am now thinking it might need a new ECU and that will need to be coded by a main dealer - unhappy about that, but there you go. Before I dive into buying a new ECU and all that entails, has anyone got any alternative suggestions?
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What were / are the symptoms?
Seems like last resort requiring a new ecu.
Shiltech couldn’t diagnose a simple abs fault on my GS, they blamed the abs ecu then.
The main dealer (Gray Paul) diagnosed a failed wheel speed sensor that I repaired at home.
Make of that what you want!
 
Yeti said:
So, it's been a while. Car has been stuck in Shiltech since last September trying to trace and repair the gearbox fault. Jeff is a tad baffled and thinks it might be the gearbox ECU, so we removed that and sent it off to Dibs to see if he could diagnose and /or fix it, but sadly not. I am now thinking it might need a new ECU and that will need to be coded by a main dealer - unhappy about that, but there you go. Before I dive into buying a new ECU and all that entails, has anyone got any alternative suggestions?
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Send it down to Matt @ his workshop.
 
Yeti said:
So, it's been a while. Car has been stuck in Shiltech since last September trying to trace and repair the gearbox fault. Jeff is a tad baffled and thinks it might be the gearbox ECU, so we removed that and sent it off to Dibs to see if he could diagnose and /or fix it, but sadly not. I am now thinking it might need a new ECU and that will need to be coded by a main dealer - unhappy about that, but there you go. Before I dive into buying a new ECU and all that entails, has anyone got any alternative suggestions?
Click to expand...
I can't help. @cheburator successfully sorted a ECU im not sure of the process. This thread will provide some clues.

https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/i-destroyed-mc-gearbox-ecu-in-my-gt.39008/

Im all for understanding how we can fix it away from a dealer.

If that's something Matt can handle ideal...if not we need to figure out the supply chain.

What we have deduced from another thread that the SD3 has a bug in it that can corrupt the ECU during a relearn. @Steve4200 know this and that's why the EasyMas obd is safe and why i have one. Although I've not tried a relearn yet.

You can read more here. Either threads may help with alternatives. My memory doesn't quite cover all the details we discussed i know there was some neandering in the threads!

https://www.sportsmaserati.com/inde...-mechanics-scratching-their-head.39910/page-2
 

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P.s just reading to the end of the last link I posted. We get to this. Read the messages around it. Seems implausible but if it worked it worked.
 

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Gp79 said:
What were / are the symptoms?
Seems like last resort requiring a new ecu.
Shiltech couldn’t diagnose a simple abs fault on my GS, they blamed the abs ecu then.
The main dealer (Gray Paul) diagnosed a failed wheel speed sensor that I repaired at home.
Make of that what you want!
Click to expand...
Gearbox was changing gear without warning and was getting a "gearbox fault, go to main dealer " message
 
Yeti said:
Matt, are you reading this? If so could you PM me so we can chat?
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We had a chat about this a month or so again, I think Jeff called me and wanted to know if he could borrow the TCU out my strad.....er, no but I would be willing for you to send me your TCU and put it in my car and see if it missbehaves.

From experiance, when all routes have been exhausted, techs point to the TCU and its not usually this.
 
conaero said:
We had a chat about this a month or so again, I think Jeff called me and wanted to know if he could borrow the TCU out my strad.....er, no but I would be willing for you to send me your TCU and put it in my car and see if it missbehaves.

From experiance, when all routes have been exhausted, techs point to the TCU and its not usually this.
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Gotcha, I remember now. I'll speak to Jeff and see what he wants to do. Car has been with him since Septemeber and I'm getting well miffed at the lack of progress
 
conaero said:
We had a chat about this a month or so again, I think Jeff called me and wanted to know if he could borrow the TCU out my strad.....er, no but I would be willing for you to send me your TCU and put it in my car and see if it missbehaves.

From experiance, when all routes have been exhausted, techs point to the TCU and its not usually this.
Click to expand...
Matt, have just spoken to Jeff and he'll be getting in touch to send the ECU down to you. Fingers crossed we can solve this one.
 
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