Business advice

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
Well I've just received a remittance advice from my local council that the Grant Money is winging it's way into my company bank account as we speak.

That'll mean we can breathe a bit easier now.

Thoroughly recommend it if you have a small business and pay business rates.

Probably should use it for stuff like paying bills as opposed to looking at buying a new car.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,167
LOL.....yes, I think you're right there reading it back

It is not an urgent requirement just wanted to buy as Dancover offered a couple of good additional discounts over and above discounted web pricing.

I'll keep them ready maybe for a quite period where I might some time. No chance at the moment for a while. Wife and kids can help as summer lockdown project!
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,511
We have already started to receive refunds and credit notes for various retail properties around the country and have not had to do anything.

I guess some authorities will be more efficient than others and will need a nudge at some point.
 

Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,668
Well I've just received a remittance advice from my local council that the Grant Money is winging it's way into my company bank account as we speak.

That'll mean we can breathe a bit easier now.

Thoroughly recommend it if you have a small business and pay business rates.

Probably should use it for stuff like paying bills as opposed to looking at buying a new car.
I know this was said in jest, and I am 100% supportive of grants that help to keep businesses in business, but it does worry me that a lot companies and individuals will claim these grants whether they actually need them or not. Surely there should be some kind of control on this to ensure that they are only going to companies and individuals that really need them to stay afloat. And surely businesses and individuals that receive them should be asked to repay them either if they didn’t really need them or, perhaps, when they are back up and running and achieve certain future profitability. Because ultimately the cost of these grants will fall to be met by the UK taxpayer and mostly to those that have not benefited from them
 

Silvercat

Member
Messages
1,166
There is no such thing as free loan. After this is all over the loans that the UK government have taken must be paid back - and printing money (quantitative easing) has to be accounted for in the economy. By logic, taxes will have to rise to pay off these bail-out measure. Corporation Tax? Inheritance Tax? NICs? Direct Income Tax. There will be a levelling of the playing field for the self-employed and the employed (Rishi Sunak already highlighted that anomaly in treating self employed the same as PAYE employees). That is a BIG hint that self employment NICs and tax treatment is likely to be aligned to PAYE terms. Otherwise why mention it?

Both direct and indirect taxes will rise? Remember pre-Margaret Thatcher? What was the basic rate of income tax then? And inflation? I remember mortgage interest rates of 17% with LTV of maximum 90% subject to 2.5 times salary or 3.0 times joint salaries. We may even see a Tory Government consider hypothecated taxation for the NHS to ensure capacity and appropriate funding (people and accountants have swung to and fro on this one). Corporates will likely question decisions to off-shore manufacturing to China and elsewhere - what if there was another pandemic with lockdown of flights. Many airlines will be insolvent, save for a handful that the Government may bail-out.

This pandemic has taught us one thing - that infections can be highly contagious and bring countries and continents to a grinding halt and kill many people at a stroke as well as economically and socially kill countries. Viruses mutate, a vaccine for Covid-19 may not be enough if there is a surge of a mutation (like there is with flu). Perhaps Governments that allow wet markets must shut down all such operations wherever they are in the world (Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia etc). Some might even claim that China must pay for economic damage inflicted on other countries - the virus started from the wet market where civets were piled on top of pangolins were piled on top of rabbits, were piled on top of bats and each of them urinating and cr&apping on those below in the cages with cross-zoonotic transmission (that is a fancy word for cross animal transfer). Then a guy crudely slaughters the live animal throwing splatter of the animals body fluids and blood in an aerosol that is inhaled by him and customers walking around. They go home and infect others. Those infected individuals (with and without symptoms) then become tourists and spread it outside of China and the chain of infection grows and grows.

https://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/news/chinas-wet-markets-should-be-banned/3983469/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/what-are-the-wet-markets-coronavirus
What a great summary! Spot on.
Now I'm no economist but this all said my brother ( who was ) was telling me yesterday that increasingly countries are moving towards the "Modern Monetary Theory", which allows countries to literally print money at infinitum and target this into specifc areas to provide stimulus to their economies ( without driving up inflation) . If all countries do this in unison, then the subsequent devaluation of their currencies won't matter. But it's a way of injecting huge amounts of money into a countries economy, with no pay back. Perhaps this is where our Chancellor's head is?
Like I said I am no expert other than looking it up on google but apparently more and more of the big economies are talking about this approach to avoid bankrupting countries who are having to intervene with massive financial intervention packages.
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,764
I know this was said in jest, and I am 100% supportive of grants that help to keep businesses in business, but it does worry me that a lot companies and individuals will claim these grants whether they actually need them or not. Surely there should be some kind of control on this to ensure that they are only going to companies and individuals that really need them to stay afloat. And surely businesses and individuals that receive them should be asked to repay them either if they didn’t really need them or, perhaps, when they are back up and running and achieve certain future profitability. Because ultimately the cost of these grants will fall to be met by the UK taxpayer and mostly to those that have not benefited from them

They will be getting it back, we can all expect to be paying more tax in the future whether it be, VAT, PAYE ,Corporation tax, National Insurance

Many businesses not eligible for grants will go under further reducing the potential tax income.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,167
I know this was said in jest, and I am 100% supportive of grants that help to keep businesses in business, but it does worry me that a lot companies and individuals will claim these grants whether they actually need them or not. Surely there should be some kind of control on this to ensure that they are only going to companies and individuals that really need them to stay afloat. And surely businesses and individuals that receive them should be asked to repay them either if they didn’t really need them or, perhaps, when they are back up and running and achieve certain future profitability. Because ultimately the cost of these grants will fall to be met by the UK taxpayer and mostly to those that have not benefited from them
I understand you're point and do agree to an extent as some in business don't have a moral compass let alone know which way round to hold it.

However if I could claim it I would for a couple of reasons. I am sure Mark will agree with me in that as a small business especially at start up stage you get little no no help from anyone of much use in reality. So when you can actually get some you will take it as you might not need it now but you might need it in a month or so of longer if this crisis deepens.

People are very uncertain about theie businessed future tomorrow onwards so need to protect it as much as they can. There will be some that fail that might cause other more solid companies issues or to fail through bad debts. I fear this issue could be very real.

Many in here or otherwise have often got themselves into better positions through hard work, sacrifice,.savings, taking some chances and sheer determined unwavering grit. Now and again it would be nice to have a little help so you can take a small breath and stop to enjoy life a little.

You get left alone and a little detached as a small business often. I get no care, calls, interest, concern, help or anything from any govt dept at all. Never....not one. The only contact I ever get is when they demand we fill extensive statistical survey's or you'll be fined if you don't. They don't pay for our time so many hours is often spent.

The banks are the same. I get no care, calls, interest, concern, help or anything from any bank at all. Except one......sometimes not always I get a yearly review call that lasts 2 mins as a tick box excercise. They ask how is your business doing and is all OK? I reply.....what do we do as a business and how long have we been in business? Thy can't answer and have no idea! Worthless.

Do I feel the govt care about our businesses? No. When a rare opportunity to claim some assistance at a time when they really really need it.....should a business take this? Yes, d4mn right they should.

It is very much a one way street with a small business and govt. Certainly not a one way street in our favour. How many small businesses.survive today I don't know.....how they will survive through this and tomorrow I really dont know!
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,167
Don't get me started though on premiership football clubs and players needing to claim their 80%.....well upto £2.5k of course. To me this is an entirely different situation completely. The average player earns £70k per week. Daniel Levy isn't short of a few million. Not sure why Spurs need to claim it. Might make me not want to support Spurs or football full stop after that!

These are the very clubs and players that were accused of having offshore tax setups to reduce tax from what they should have been paying.
 

Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,668
I understand you're point and do agree to an extent as some in business don't have a moral compass let alone know which way round to hold it.

However if I could claim it I would for a couple of reasons. I am sure Mark will agree with me in that as a small business especially at start up stage you get little no no help from anyone of much use in reality. So when you can actually get some you will take it as you might not need it now but you might need it in a month or so of longer if this crisis deepens.

People are very uncertain about theie businessed future tomorrow onwards so need to protect it as much as they can. There will be some that fail that might cause other more solid companies issues or to fail through bad debts. I fear this issue could be very real.

Many in here or otherwise have often got themselves into better positions through hard work, sacrifice,.savings, taking some chances and sheer determined unwavering grit. Now and again it would be nice to have a little help so you can take a small breath and stop to enjoy life a little.

You get left alone and a little detached as a small business often. I get no care, calls, interest, concern, help or anything from any govt dept at all. Never....not one. The only contact I ever get is when they demand we fill extensive statistical survey's or you'll be fined if you don't. They don't pay for our time so many hours is often spent.

The banks are the same. I get no care, calls, interest, concern, help or anything from any bank at all. Except one......sometimes not always I get a yearly review call that lasts 2 mins as a tick box excercise. They ask how is your business doing and is all OK? I reply.....what do we do as a business and how long have we been in business? Thy can't answer and have no idea! Worthless.

Do I feel the govt care about our businesses? No. When a rare opportunity to claim some assistance at a time when they really really need it.....should a business take this? Yes, d4mn right they should.

It is very much a one way street with a small business and govt. Certainly not a one way street in our favour. How many small businesses.survive today I don't know.....how they will survive through this and tomorrow I really dont know!
So my point was:

  • if they claim it and then discover they don’t need it because their business is not impacted as much as they thought, or indeed they have profited from the crisis, they should be asked to repay it
  • if they claim it and their business survives and they subsequently return to a minimum (tbd) level of profitability, they should be asked to repay it.

it doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. What seems unreasonable to me is that the wider taxpayer population should be asked to pay for this support for businesses that can afford to repay it in the future. For example, a pensioner who has worked hard all his or her life, never taking any benefits from the state, saving into a pension for their future, to now find that their future income is reduced and they are perhaps paying more tax on it. Just an example......there are many who will get no support under the currently announced packages but will pay for them, who may feel reluctant to pay for small business to “take a breath and enjoy life a little”
 
Messages
1,117
A good point Robert. I think the Government should have offered loans rather than grants to small businesses. Giving grants opens up the door to people claiming it irrespective of need. A loan on the other hand, people think carefully about claiming it. Only those who need to "stay afloat" will claim it and it makes a difference to them. The loans can be at BoE base rate and repayable over a long period. Perhaps a 5 year window with no repayment due until January 2022 and term of 5 years to December 2026.
Only people who are confident and capable of managing their small business through this situation will put their business into a tough net increased gearing position.