Brexit Deal

Messages
6,001
My Two Pence worth
There will be no General Election until May 2022 - time for Tories to rebuild
Boris will be PM this/next week
We will leave EU with no deal in October following weeks/months of prevarication
Tories will win next GE - just
Brexit party will cease to exist
Corbyn will go
 

breezer

Member
Messages
229
If there is no alternative, how does Boris overcome the HoC when they have categorically said that they will not vote for a no deal Brexit? An election?

They don’t get a choice. Article 50 has been enacted and the default position, if nothing else happens, is full Brexit with no agreement on 31/10. That is the legal position at present.

There is no ‘vote to leave’ option for the HoC.

The only way to prevent that is to present a deal that will pass (not the utter bilge TM presented) or to obtain an extension.

Europe would, as pointed out, most likely do the worst possible thing and provide a further extension so that businesses still don’t know what to plan for and therefore will still avoid investing in the U.K. Then they’d start to talk about revoking article 50...

Best case now is full Brexit and we just get on with life. I find it hilarious when remain supporters call Brexit supporters delusional yet still think Europe will allow article 50 to be revoked without the EU taking their pound of flesh! Goodbye veto, goodbye rebate, hello vassal state U.K. Remaining now is probably the worst possible outcome for the economy and for us as people.
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,102
My Two Pence worth
There will be no General Election until May 2022 - time for Tories to rebuild
Boris will be PM this/next week
We will leave EU with no deal in October following weeks/months of prevarication
Tories will win next GE - just
Brexit party will cease to exist
Corbyn will go
Farage will crate ANOTHER PARTY to get the UK to leave the UN, NATO , WTO , FIFA, UEFA, The planet!
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
If that's genuinely your view (after reading and understanding the Ivan Rogers article), then I know debating it further will be a waste of time.
Completely agree, that article was pure gold, nice post.

The only credible option is complete revocation, even the Empirical sheepies must see this, every other option is woe, woe and more woe for all except the super-rich. The notion that the UK, The British, The English are somehow 'better' and 'This Great Nation' will flourish is pure pie in the sky. Stratospheric Shortcrust.

It won't, it will struggle. Are we aren't, we will struggle.

If this continues we are in danger of becoming 100% Trump's bîtch, and Boris is the man to lead us into this valley of death..

I'm semi-reluctantly moving back to Ireland, I love it there and hate it at the same time, but it will be a nice place if Brexit does happen, certainly nicer than what the UK will become, I'm thinking PD James and The Children of Men. Not the lack of new borns bit, the **** hole bit...
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,220
I just don't get why May took on the poison chalice of being PM, unless it was as an ardent remainer to try and bury Brexit, she absolutely delivered a midden pit with the negotiating skills of a hungry spaniel seeing an open larder...

Whatever the outcome now we are already thrown to the wolves for nothing so with nothing much left to loose the new PM has it all to do...
 

MarkMas

Chief pedant
Messages
8,795
.....The notion that the UK, The British, The English are somehow 'better' and 'This Great Nation' will flourish is pure pie in the sky. Stratospheric Shortcrust....

Actually I was pretty comfortable with that notion, not based on some nostalgic imperialist billhooks but on the Uk being one of the largest economies in the world.

57758

But I think we are a real risk of making our future much worse with the way that Brexit has been miss-handled.
 

lifes2short

Member
Messages
5,821
My Two Pence worth
There will be no General Election until May 2022 - time for Tories to rebuild
Boris will be PM this/next week
We will leave EU with no deal in October following weeks/months of prevarication
Tories will win next GE - just
Brexit party will cease to exist
Corbyn will go

you forgot to forcast gold/bullion prices, wattie will not be amused;)
 

zagatoes30

Member
Messages
20,759
I'm semi-reluctantly moving back to Ireland, I love it there and hate it at the same time, but it will be a nice place if Brexit does happen, certainly nicer than what the UK will become, I'm thinking PD James and The Children of Men. Not the lack of new borns bit, the **** hole bit...

Me too but not reluctantly, I love the place not over keen on the cost of living but can cope with that
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
I’m a Kearney!
51% Irish, 49% English according the Ancestry DNA, bit sceptical about that tho considering how we mix in Western Europe. My partner, born in Russia in the Urals did hers and she's 35% Finnish, 15% Lithuanian, then loads of other percentages of Jewish, Russian and Kazakh. Odd.
 

JonW

Member
Messages
3,259
This will be interesting to see the reaction....

"It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”

It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”

Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.

We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.

The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.

And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing Boy Scouts in his shed.

All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.

There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.

The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.

Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty.

We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a **** at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.

Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”

When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”

Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.

...

Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.

The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.

This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
you forgot to forcast gold/bullion prices, wattie will not be amused;)
Actually i’m Just fine with that, it’s best left to an expert!:alan:

All up again! GBP now over £1006oz, romping in Aud $2027
Oh and let’s not forget 5 year highs in Ponzi about to printed to Infiniti Euros!

57764

Cue the music

 
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Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
This will be interesting to see the reaction....

"
All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.

There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.

The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.

Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty.

We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a **** at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.

Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”

When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”

Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.

...

Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.

The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.

This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?
“We don’t want to be part of it?”
See that’s where you’re wrong.
We do want to have an ongoing relationship with it - mutually beneficial trade, security, peace, prosperity etc but we want to do it on our terms- not theirs!
Thank you but we’ll make our own decisions on laws and we’ll develope trade deals elsewhere too that diversifies our interests away from the EU and it’s stupid half ar5e currency that will collapse at some point.
We can still all be friends, no-one is saying we can’t......it’s up to them to accept this and get over the fact that one idiot PM ‘s ridiculous “vassal” state deal may have been good enough for her but fortunately the rest of us (17.4m and a large degree of remainers who thought it was appalling too) still have the intelligence, pride and ambition to tell them that what she agreed was unacceptable :24186z4:

Renegotiate or we’re off, no cash, see you :f2:.

Let’s see how strong their ponzi economy is to that sort of shock.


Is that interesting enough?
 
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Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
It's alright you throwing stones from afar but we're living this fiasco every effing day. Can you not see that Farage is a not a credible politician but a narcissist like Trump, Mussolini, Putin (Putain!) , Nazarbayev Mugabe, Stalin, I could go on...they did.
Well if Theresa May is the benchmark for “credible” yup i’m quite happy that Farage is far more qualified to transact the UK through Brexit.