Brexit Deal

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
Yes, it has...
Which would indicate that despite our misgivings over the concesssions agreed to in the withdrawal agreement, any trade deal reached within the two years transition period can be either accepted, or we walk away..! No Deal. Suck it up EU. ( And UK ):clapps:
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
Hot off the press:

'The European Court of Justice has ruled the UK can cancel Brexit without the permission of the other 27 EU members.'

The Brussels cabal is clearly getting worried - as they should; their dream is rapidly becoming a nightmare.

PH

Doesnt surprise me. From the start, Europe has not wanted us to leave for their own selfish agenda and I don't really blame them.

Europe is a club and a business and at the root of it all is their success and survival.

2 Scenarios will come of it all:
1. It will strive and become the largest global economy.
2. It will fail as members leave

There is already growing unrest from the old European money countries and the UK is the test case.

If we leave and its a success it will cause the break up of the EU as the rich countries (givers) leave and all your left with are the takers.

So as a way to protect this, the EU have offered the olive branch...or, this is all in the plan and we are all being played by the UK and the EU:

Make it the biggest mess they can then on judgment day, say all is forgiven and come back.
 

zagatoes30

Member
Messages
20,759
Doesnt surprise me. From the start, Europe has not wanted us to leave for their own selfish agenda and I don't really blame them.

Europe is a club and a business and at the root of it all is their success and survival.

2 Scenarios will come of it all:
1. It will strive and become the largest global economy.
2. It will fail as members leave

There is already growing unrest from the old European money countries and the UK is the test case.

If we leave and its a success it will cause the break up of the EU as the rich countries (givers) leave and all your left with are the takers.

So as a way to protect this, the EU have offered the olive branch...or, this is all in the plan and we are all being played by the UK and the EU:

Make it the biggest mess they can then on judgment day, say all is forgiven and come back.

Exactly my point, the EU can't make it easy to leave or else others will and the pack of cards will tumble
 

Contigo

Sponsor
Messages
18,376
France want to leave that was very apparent by talking to the french when Brexit decision was made a couple of years ago. Look at the unrest right there now and it is getting worse, it's spreading like wildfire too all over Europe.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
Maybe the EU should have a referendum?

I recon I know how it would go, Holland, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Cyprus leave, Germany, Belgium and the Eastern block remain.

Membrane = Brussels
Sucrose = Money

Do the maths!

Unknown.jpeg
 

Corranga

Member
Messages
1,219
All this talk of the UK being less powerful in the EU if we somehow remain, and not being able to go back etc.. The EU is a democracy. We have sitting EU MPs, something that the whole of the country seem to have forgotten, including the leavers, who probably didn't research and vote for the correct folk in the first place.

Once the decision was made it was always going to be a tough exit, here in the UK there are too many remainers who still wanted to stay and the leavers didn't want to stand up to deliver the benefits that they promised so we ended up with a compromise that works for neither. However don't forget the EU were in this too and the one thing they didn't seen was an easy exit for any country. The EU is a flawed organisation that is expensive to run, what is doesn't need is an easy route out for any net contributor so they had to show that leaving was a significant disadvantage in leaving and this is what they have done helped mainly by the UK split weakening our negotiating position.

The only positive out of this is it has shown up all the current crop of MPs as ineffective leaders and decision makers and some have even shown there self centred true selfs which I hope we as voters remember for future votes.

It's a tough exit because the EU is so ingrained in our lives, laws and society. The problem is, none of this was really mentioned, and plenty of those who voted leave obviously didn't bother to research this.
As a starter, let's discuss the massive amount of money the the UK contributes in member fees - it's a massive.... £9 billion - to put that into perspective, we pay about 120 billion for the NHS every year. The EU contribution wouldn't fund NHS Scotland for a year, and that's before things like farming subsidies etc. pay out - some reports are stating that proposed changes in EU export laws could cost up to £20 billion a year for UK business.

And what do we get in return? The ability to live and retire anywhere in Europe.
Tax free trading with our closest countries.
Centralisation - so we need less lawyers and law writers in our government, and less bureaucracy as for example, goods for EU export are manufactured to an EU standard rather than both a UK and an EU standard.
And since I've brought it up, EU quality and safety standards are very good, and have the clout of all those countries to shake up big business who otherwise don't want to participate.
Influence. The UK is a joke, when we leave, we'll be a minnow, with less power than we have in the EU, anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves.
Migration - I hate the term immigrants - let's be realistic, they are people. We have it pretty good here in the UK, health care and education are decent, welfare exists and people can live on it, sure employment and homelessness has a ways to go, but on the whole, there are much, much worse places in the world. The NHS always needs staff, many come from other European countries. Whether it be the low skilled jobs that we are too lazy to do, or the higher skilled or more technical jobs that our education sector hasn't provided the staff for, in come other skilled workers from elsewhere in the EU to give balance.

As for them making it easy to leave... why would they?
I can't even begin to comprehend why the EU would negotiate a deal with the UK that makes the UK better than it was in the EU, that's political suicide - allowing an Ex-member to have their cake and eat it.
Leaving the EU was always going to be a disaster for the UK - at least in the short term (then it's on us to make something of it - and with the MPs we have making an **** of the first step... well...)
Put simply, we need them more than they need us, even in a not deal situation, the cost to all of the EU countries of, say taxation on UK imports will be much less than the UK pays in EU imports - and of course the load is spread more thinly with the size of Europe.
No sitting government wants to commit to doing something that isn't in the countries best interests, that's why we don't see governments campaigning on higher taxes (even if it's what we really need to improve things across the board) or other things that would be massively beneficial, but hugely unpopular like banning vehicles from streets surrounding schools, or banning smoking.
The EU was never going to give us all of the benefits we currently have along with not being a member, whilst allowing us to get rid of the downsides (which I still don't really see personally...), just in the same way they aren't going to fund re-writing our laws, many of which we'll have to retain in order to trade with them anyway.


On a sided note, I found this page hilarious. The ability to take each and every advantage and turn it into a disadvantage appeals, and demonstrates the pot luck element of both scenarios!
 

Phil H

Member
Messages
4,107
The bully in the playground is eventually going to lose his dinner money, and with his loss of face his gang members will start to desert him.

Assuming we do leave, on whatever terms, the next couple of years will see an exodus from the EU Parliament as key members decide to 'spend more time with their families'.

PH
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
The bully in the playground is eventually going to lose his dinner money, and with his loss of face his gang members will start to desert him.

PH

I don’t think going without the odd Marathon or Topic bar will do Boris any harm.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
Yes, it has...
Which would indicate that despite our misgivings over the concesssions agreed to in the withdrawal agreement, any trade deal reached within the two years transition period can be either accepted, or we walk away..! No Deal. Suck it up EU. ( And UK ):clapps:
Think you’re getting confused with walking away from Brexit and walking away from the backstop.

We cannot legally unilaterally walk away from the backstop.

They of course want us to cancel Brexit. No surprise in that decision at all.

Cheers Wattie
 

Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,668
Have you that little faith in a Uk, over a troubled and bankrupt Europe.


I'm not sure I agree with the statement that others are just trying to force an election.

Competent negotiating and planning by the current incumbants wouldnt have led to this.

But due to
total incompetence
and clearly a failure to prepare for plan B
and a prime minister now trying to effectively threaten (its europe or jc) and force through a deal just about everyone hates (which isnt Brexit)
and a ticking clock

The UK finds itself in a perilous position which they are totally responsible for.......they even set the referendum question which is now seen to be too narrow in its asking.

Someone strong is now needed at the helm and it clearly isnt the current leadership who have totally mismanaged everything for 2 years and got us to this dire position.

Can you blame others for saying enough is enough.........

Did Corbyn infiltrate Sports Maserati?

How do you know this is true? Perhaps this is May’s Plan B negotiating strategy. Having got to stalemate with the EU, deliberately lose a few cabinet ministers, then lose the House vote so that the EU has to negotiate further or face a no deal Brexit it doesn’t want either. Do you really think May and her advisers are too stupid to be able have such a Plan b strategy? If it was Corbyn, possibly, as he has never had any alternative anyway.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
Perhaps this is May’s Plan B negotiating strategy. Having got to stalemate with the EU, deliberately lose a few cabinet ministers, then lose the House vote so that the EU has to negotiate further or face a no deal Brexit it doesn’t want either. Do you really think May and her advisers are too stupid to be able have such a Plan b strategy?

This is pretty much what I have thought all along. The EU are now panicking after they thought they had it sown up.

Maybe May has been cleaver than we gave her credit for.
 

Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,668
Think you’re getting confused with walking away from Brexit and walking away from the backstop.

We cannot legally unilaterally walk away from the backstop.

They of course want us to cancel Brexit. No surprise in that decision at all.

Cheers Wattie

I’m not sure this is right. If the EU stops negotiating in good faith, I believe we must be able to unilaterally walk away. Who would stop us? The EU? How? In what Court? Not the ECJ since it could have no compelling jurisdiction in such circumstances. By applying EU trade sanctions against the UK? Can you imagine how that would play out with certain member states? I just can’t see how that outcome plays out in any good way for the EU.
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
Saw something over the weekend (on one of the countless news channels Sky has) where they were (as usual) arguing the pros and cons of staying or leaving.
One point which was obvious, but hasn't been mentioned at all came up.

If we were to leave on a 'Hard Brexit' as wanted by so many Brexitiers, then we would be free to negotiate our own trade agreements with the rest of the world.
Which everyone on the panel (both retainers and leavers) agreed was a good thing.

Until one bright young chap remarked. "How long will that take? because an absolutely appalling deal has taken 2 years to negotiate and that's just with the EU. How long will a good deal take? and then the deals with the USA, Canada, Australia, Japan etc etc etc."
Apparently some think tank in the London school of Economics has said that 'good' trade deals with all of these countries could take up to 20 years to negotiate.
What happens in the 20 years in the meantime?

I guess the only equivalent I can think of was when you start a new job and they haven't sorted your tax details out and you get put on emergency tax for the first month and see 50% of your wages disappear. This I imagine would be like having a no deal Brexit in March, and no trade deals. The UK gets put on emergency tax.

Lets just have a think about that for a minute.

We voted to leave the EU. No one had a plan so we have the mess we have now.
Suppose we leave the EU in March, and we have no trade deals agreed. That will be one **** of a f*ck up for the UK economy, industry and everything else.
You can bet your life that no one has even thought about starting trade agreements yet.

Still think it's a good idea to leave with a hard Brexit?
 

MaserCoupe

Member
Messages
564
What a thread this is! I'm beginning to think that our relationship with the European Union (and them with us), is like two inter-twined lovers in a "friends with benefits relationship"......I don't love you but I love shagging you, I want to be exclusive but I wanna play the field, can't live with you but I can't live without you, I love living with you but only when it suits me, I hate feeling suffocated but I want to feel the love but not the affection. I feel lonely but I want the security you provide me! I think the grass is greener on the other side, but I think I'll wait till I'm ready or something better comes along, so you'll do for now! I'm with you but I'm not really spiritually engaged in this relationship! I'm committed...but not really committed...Basically I dunno what I want but I want it all. At what point do we hold up a mirror and ask the hard questions about ourselves.

I'm actually really concerned about keeping my Maser on the road because if this screws up parts supply or makes things very very expensive for us, then I can't imagine we'd be happy with having these lovely cars sitting as expensive paper weights.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
Marathon? Strewth, you must be of the senior generation, and what's 'got a hazelnut in every bite'?

PH

Only 41 but that's what they were called when I was at school, I thought that's why we wanted out of Europe, bring back Jif and Opal Fruits!
 

JonW

Member
Messages
3,259
.... I'm beginning to think that our relationship with the European Union (and them with us), is like two inter-twined lovers in a "friends with benefits relationship"......I don't love you but I love shagging you, I want to be exclusive but I wanna play the field, can't live with you but I can't live without you, I love living with you but only when it suits me, I hate feeling suffocated but I want to feel the love but not the affection. I feel lonely but I want the security you provide me! I think the grass is greener on the other side, but I think I'll wait till I'm ready or something better comes along, so you'll do for now! I'm with you but I'm not really spiritually engaged in this relationship! I'm committed...but not really committed...Basically I dunno what I want but I want it all.

At what point do we hold up a mirror and ask the hard questions about ourselves...

This has to be one of, if not the, best ways of describing how messed up this whole thing has become