Brexit Deal

[Wanderer]

It is all true, it's a matter of historical record, he has met with members of the IRA while they were actively engaged in their bombing campaign, and as for peaceable honest man, I take it you've not seen the footage of him on youtube lunging with his fist at a young female journalist a couple of years ago, for daring to ask a perfectly straight forward question about his so called leadership? He had to be dragged away by one of his hangers on. None of it is 'Tory rhetoric'. Both Corbyn and McDonnell have praised the IRA, McDonnell as recently as 2003.

Ok Link please.

He met with Sinn Fein to broker peace as did UK Gov at the time but they could do it in camera as they where in power...

Show me the evidence of meetings with IRA, there's none cos it doesn't; exist and if it does, its no different from what elected UK was doing.

Whatever the truth is it's lamentable, whatever the truth no one is innocent, I was CND yet I ending up working for BNFL where we made Tritium to kill people, none of us have totally clean hands...

But out of the lot we've got Corbyn trumps Johnson surely?

 

[CatmanV2]

Just out of curiosity I did some digging. I am not going to engage in ideological arguments about better or worse but it does seem pretty clear from this:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyn-on-northern-ireland

That Corbyn did, indeed meet with both Gerry Adams during the troubles and also convicted terrorists, namely Linda Quigley and Gerry MacLochlainn.

I make no comment as to why he did that, or indeed if they were actually members of the IRA or wrongly convicted as being such.

With regards to John McDonell although the source is The Daily Telegraph so may immediately be denigrated as 'tory rhetoric'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...pologises-praising-ira-claims-did-everything/

"It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table."

He has apologised for making those comments. Whether any given individual takes that to mean he is praising them is entirely up to the individual in question.

C

 

[Corranga]

I think the election comes down to one thing and one thing only given the diabolical choice of current parties/ leaders/ the deteriorating situation.

If you want to leave the Eu - you will vote Tory and hold your nose.
If you wanna stay in the Eu - you will vote Lib Dem and hold your nose.
If you don't know wtf you want regarding the EU and wish even more farcical Eu negotiation and even more months of misery and nonsense from a party that cannot decide what it wants to do on a daily basis - you will vote Labour and hold your nose.
You will then pretend that somehow you have united the country and that all is well.

If you don't vote you will be responsible for determining the final result too - hold your nose and vote.

All other issues, NHS blah, blah, blah are irrelevant as everything promised, will never happen in the way its been stated. That is for 100% sure.

I've a gut feeling that Parliament will be hung and that is the worst of all possible worlds as it will render the UK in an even more atrocious position.

Removing Wattie’s anti Labour (or perhaps it’s just Corbyn?) rhetoric, I almost agree.

Want Brexit, more austerity and the status quo? Vote Tory.
Want to prevent Brexit, enable change and try something different to the last decade? Vote tactically against the Tories.

There are a couple of websites that can tell you who to vote for.

Blindly voting Lib Dem will do nothing. Remember they are the 4th biggest party in British politics nowadays after popping up the Tories with Clegg.

 

[Wanderer]

Just out of curiosity I did some digging. I am not going to engage in ideological arguments about better or worse but it does seem pretty clear from this:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyn-on-northern-ireland

That Corbyn did, indeed meet with both Gerry Adams during the troubles and also convicted terrorists, namely Linda Quigley and Gerry MacLochlainn.

I make no comment as to why he did that, or indeed if they were actually members of the IRA or wrongly convicted as being such.

With regards to John McDonell although the source is The Daily Telegraph so may immediately be denigrated as 'tory rhetoric'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...pologises-praising-ira-claims-did-everything/

"It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table."

He has apologised for making those comments. Whether any given individual takes that to mean he is praising them is entirely up to the individual in question.

C

Adams is not RA, he's Sinn Fein, there's as much a connection there to the RA as there is to Fine Gael.

The others I dunno - need to research...

Oddly enough Adams comes into my mates Restaurant in Howth regularly, and always leaves the same tip, Five UK Pounds!

 

[CatmanV2]

Adams is not RA, he's Sinn Fein,

That appears to be slightly less than clear cut: Just from Wiki:

Adams has stated repeatedly that he has never been a member of the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA).[31] However, authors such as Ed Moloney, Peter Taylor, Mark Urban and historian Richard English have all named Adams as part of the IRA leadership since the 1970s.[32][33][34][35] Moloney and Taylor state Adams became the IRA's Chief of Staff following the arrest of Seamus Twomey in early December 1977, remaining in the position until 18 February 1978 when he, along with twenty other republican suspects, was arrested following the La Mon restaurant bombing.[36][37] He was charged with IRA membership and remanded to Crumlin Road Gaol.[38] He was released seven months later when the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland Robert Lowry ruled there was insufficient evidence to proceed with the prosecution.[38][39] Moloney and English state Adams had been a member of the IRA Army Council since 1977, remaining a member until 2005 according to Irish Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Michael McDowell [40][41][42]

Not going to chase down all the citations, but clearly some other people more informed than I disagree. I'm sure others hold a differently informed view.

C

 

[Oneball]

Adams is a lying terrorist in a suit. At least Martin McGuinness was honest about his membership of the IRA

 

[Corranga]

The Tories and big business, hand in hand.

Amazon ready to cash in on free access to NHS data

Amazon has been handed the keys to a trove of NHS data it can use to develop products to sell internationally without paying a penny to the UK.A government contract, revealed under freedom of information laws, shows the partnership goes far beyond the tie-up with Amazon’s Alexa voice assistant ann

www.thetimes.co.uk

Plenty of oil folk on here, to put it into perspective, the NHS data was at one point said to be worth about £10 billion a year. Oil is worth £35 apparently. Don’t pay your taxes, get given all of the NHS data.

And we as a country are debating whether Corbyn watches the Queen on Xmas day...

 

[CatmanV2]

Can't read that without a subscription chap

C

 

[CatmanV2]

Found another report here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...a-access-uk-government-contract-a9237901.html

So someone has decided that what Amazon gives on the contract is worth more than the cost. I can get that, although I may not agree with the valuations.

I will observe that if the tax system is so broken that it is possible legally to reduce a corporation's liability while profits increase, the system needs fixing. There's a clear tension between the legal requirement to maximise profits on behalf of shareholders (and I doubt there's anyone on here with a pension or life assurance that doesn't, indirectly, own shares in Amazon) and the requirement to (morally) pay more tax....

C

 

[rockits]

I've never been too interested in Politics....ever. Now the last 3 years have seen me less interested than ever.

None of them seem to have much guille, skill or ability to be honest and all importantly deliver.

I am struggling to decide in favour of voting for anyone and that has been my continual issue for years.

I don't understand the desire or possibility to try to engage at obtain support from all of the country or anywhere close. At best all you can hope for is maximum 50% I'm guessing and all you need is a majority. You are never going to please everyone so stop trying.

Just do what you feel is right and the right thing to do then hope that a majority agree. I couldn't be a puppet and be a civil servant to the majority view if it wasn't my view. I would never want to compromise my views and opinions. Even if others disagree.

What weight, value or strength can anyone offer if one minute they say one thing then later say something completely different. It cheapens and lessens it to a point it is almost worthless. Then surely all credibility is lost and that person is then less useful or of little use in politics full stop.

I cannot trust or believe any of them so what value does a vote carry. None IMHO.

 

[CatmanV2]

None of them seem to have much guille, <deleted> or ability to be honest

There appears to be a contradiction there

C

 

[rockits]

You might be right there.....not sure guile was the right word I was looking for! I even spelt it wrong!!

I blame a less than decent education....it was alright but obviously could have been so much better

 

[Wattie]

You might be right there.....not sure guile was the right word I was looking for! I even spelt it wrong!!

I blame a less than decent education....it was alright but obviously could have been so much better

In that case I have a voting solution for you- figure out which govt was responsible for your education and vote accordingly.

 

[rockits]

In that case I have a voting solution for you- figure out which govt was responsible for your education and vote accordingly.

I think it was partly my fault so I'll take some responsibility. I was never interested or engaged at school so made little effort. I've changed a great deal since then.

When I came out into the big wide world I became a huge engaged sponge. I have said for years we should have more.vocatuonal subject on the curriculum. I don't see why we shouldn't have plumbing, building, electrics or similar GCSE's. If they had a mechanics GCSE at school I would have been all over it. I am sure many others would have been too.

I just don't see any politicians making a real difference any more.

 

[CatmanV2]

I think it was partly my fault so I'll take some responsibility. I was never interested or engaged at school so made little effort. I've changed a great deal since then.

Good for you. Although education has a purpose. That purpose (IMHO) does not extend to much of the things we discuss here.

I'd also observe the implicit assumption that because a set of actions or policies produced such-and-such result there's absolutely no evidence that a different set of policies would produce a better result.

Of course, we don't like that and prefer to stick to our ideologies. Even though we can't actually agree on what better looks like.....

C

 

[Wattie]

This just proves how ridiculous politics has become in the UK.

“The Tories were criticised after publishing figures claming that a Labour government would lead to 882 more guns and 8,596 weapons on the streets every year.
This could cause up to 4,000 violent assaults, 150 sexual assaults and 52 murder murders, the party claimed”

Proves once again that none of them are credible.

 

[JonW]

Will just leave this here....

 

[GeoffCapes]

I just thought I would take a look to see if there was any value in betting on the election.

And there is.

The Tories to win, but without a majority 7/2 with Sky Bet. Might be worth a punt!
However, to bet on my local Tory MP winning his seat again 1/200. Bit of a shoe in!

 

[D Walker]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2845505028840940

 

[zagatoes30]

Adams is a lying terrorist in a suit. At least Martin McGuinness was honest about his membership of the IRA

That just about sums up my view